Dean be easy on the fellow, those rankings did mean something when he was 8 or so, but once you hit 10 or 11 the rankings are based on what you have done at that age.

Actually my point, and Chief has said it a number of times, one disagrees then provide evidence and reason, he has actually changed his rankings based on that.

Now anyone that puts any weight to those rankings watch out. I have stated before and believe it, that on any given day, most anyone ranked can beat anyone else ranked. I know that to be the case at 119 and several of the other weights. Chief has dedicated himself to helping and entertaining us on these boards with real, and lively discussion, to blast him because you disagree with it really is something I would expect an 11 or 12 year old to do.

Mike,.
I'm not following you. I'm slow. My point was simply that chief is correct (in my opinion) that the last win/lost at state carries a ton of weight when he is making his rankings.

I assume you were being sarcastic but I'm still too sleep or slow to pick on on it. Time to get to the shower and wake up.

A little sarcastic, just implying that the one young man stated he was undefeated when he was like 8 or so, agreeing with him also implying that once you reach an older age, which he likely has, that age is what matters, wasn't anything towards you. Time for me to get to the gym, after making one more post in the other related field. I do agree with you 100% on Chief, I think he knows that. Have a good one and good morning.

Mike, I know and trust you. I didn't feel like you were jabbing me or demanding me to 'COWBOY UP'! hahahaha

I was just asking for an explanation to your comment. After a shower and some coffee - I get it.

Here it is again sarcastically -- "hey, I was UNDEFEATED back in 1978 -- why am I not on the 2009 FINAL rankings? There are 'kids' ahead of me with one or two losses! Ghez, man. Thats not FAIR." hahahaha

Thanks Mike. Take care.

Dean

chief, i'm not sure where but serna beat page

At heavyweight Jeff O’Daniel of St. Paul, the fourth place finisher in 321A, beat Tony Marquez of Bishop Carroll 4-0 at the SEK Tournament in Chanute.

I do see that Serna beat Page 3-1 at Newton. I had weighed the recent tech fall by Page over Marquez vs. a closer match between Serna/Marquez. What are Serna's 3 losses and did Page wrestle him again anywhere?

Thanks for the info!

FINAL 2008-09 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!


TEAM RANKINGS:

1. Goddard - 6A
2. Emporia - 5A
3. Derby - 6A
4. Colby - 4A
5. Lansing - 5A
6. Bishop Carroll - 5A
7. Smith Center - 321A
8. Clay Center - 4A
9. Maize - 6A
10t. Abilene - 4A
10t. Wichita Heights - 6A



103
1. Bo Pursel - 9 - LS - 5A
2. Roger Windham - 12 - DB - 6A
3. Aaron Seybold - 9 - PT - 5A
4. Dylan Schumacher - 9 - TM - 321A
5. Colby Watters - 9 - ARK - 5A
6. Hunter Stalford - 9 - CV - 4A
7. Konnor Kriss - 9 - CB - 4A
8. Austin Hood - 9 - LOU - 4A
9. Ty Kolterman - 9 - CC - 4A
10. Luke Cole - 12 - AB - 4A


112
1. Taylor Moeder - 10 - SJA - 4A
2. Alan Callahan - 12 - BAL - 4A
3. Kenneth Ornelas - 12 - CH - 4A
4. Dane Norris - 10 - MH - 6A
5. Uylesses DeShazer - 9 - WH - 6A
6. Isaac Ruiz - 11 - JC - 6A
7. Dalton Miller - 11 - WC - 6A
8. Trevor Boyer - 11 - MV - 5A
9. Bo Newport - 10 - PV - 4A
10t. Nathan Reed - 11 - CB - 4A
10t. Adrian Salas - 11 - LB - 5A


119
1. Nathan Furches - 12 - CL - 4A
2. Zack Tanenbaum - 10 - BVN - 6A
3. Garrett Jones - 11 - ARK - 5A
4. Jake Gentzler - 10 - AC - 5A
5. Jeff Vesta - 12 - MH - 6A
6. Zac Sparr - 12 - RH - 4A
7. Logan Singular - 11 - CC - 4A
8. Dan Weigel - 12 - PL - 321A
9. Zach Hoehn - 10 - WEL - 321A
10. Blaine Smith - 11 - SS - 5A


125
1. Chase Nitcher - 11 - VC - 5A
2. Chaz Lawrence - 12 - OS - 6A
3. Daniel DeShazer - 10 - WH - 6A
4. Zach Peters - 12 - AU - 4A
5. Devon Frye - 12 - EU - 321A
6. Alex Bontz - 9 - WI - 4A
7. Jace Campbell - 11 - OA - 321A
8. Steven Plott - 11 - SS - 5A
9. Tyson Schmidtberger - 11 - RUS - 4A
10. Kyle Johnson - 10 - COL - 4A


130
1. Ryne Cokeley - 10 - SJA - 4A
2. Trent Cox - 12 - MZ - 6A
3. Colt Rogers - 11 - SC - 321A
4. Spencer Blew - 10 - LS - 5A
5. Kash Biddle - 11 - ARK - 5A
6. Dylan Penka - 10 - BC - 5A
7. Josh Umscheid - 12 - AC - 5A
8. Justin Rose - 12 - EMP - 5A
9. Cody Wildin - 11 - MA - 321A
10t. Aaron Geist - 12 - OS - 321A
10t. Trey Houlden - 10 - GD - 6A


135
1t. C.J. Napier - 12 - COL - 4A
1t. Kendric Maple - 12 - WH - 6A
3. Tyler Anderson - 11 - CC - 4A
4. Bryce Hood - 11 - LOU - 4A
5. Danny Floyd - 11 - OS - 321A
6. Sal Tovar - 12 - EMP - 5A
7. Cade Hewitt - 12 - BE - 321A
8. Vance Oliver - 11 - WIN - 5A
9. Beau Hentzen - 12 - BC - 5A
10. Dillon Stucky - 11 - SC - 4A


140
1. Parker Madl - 11 - BV - 6A
2. Cade Blair - 11 - VC - 5A
3. Linwood Peoples - 12 - BVNW - 6A
4. Joey Dozier - 11 - GC - 6A
5. Cameron Jesseph - 12 - CH - 4A
6. Zach Bainter - 12 - NO - 321A
7. Dustin Zahorsky - 12 - SL - 321A
8. Tavo Dikin - 12 - EMP - 5A
9. John Lynch - 12 - LA - 321A
10t. Trevor Oliver - 11 - OS - 321A
10t. Cody Shavlik - 11 - DB - 6A


145
1. Mitchell Means - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Colby Crank - 12 - HUT - 5A
3. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE - 321A
4. Trevor Rempe - 12 - SC - 321A
5. Tyler Davis - 11 - MCP - 5A
6. Jake Walker - 11 - STA - 5A
7. Jake Hattabaugh - 10 - AN - 4A
8. Sam Son - 9 - CH - 4A
9. Quinton Wuthnow - 12 - AB - 4A
10. Chase Sanchez - 10 - EMP - 5A


152
1. Chris Watson - 12 - AC - 5A
2. Nathan Sommer - 12 - PV - 4A
3. Blake Fulbright - 12 - MZ - 6A
4. Ryan Houlden - 12 - GD - 6A
5. Marshall McCall - 12 - SC - 321A
6. Derek Newell - 12 - UL - 4A
7. Tyler Sutherland - 12 - LB - 5A
8. David Lalo - 12 - OE - 6A
9. Reece Wright-Conklin - 9 - LAW - 6A
10. Cullen Demerest - 11 - LS - 5A


160:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Kyle Detmer - 12 - BC - 5A
3. Travis Rempe - 12 - SC - 321A
4. John Hambleton - 11 - LC - 4A
5. Benny Armstrong - 11 - AN - 4A
6. Ryan Wuthnow - 11 - AB - 4A
7. Corey Engstrom - 12 - HOI - 321A
8. Todd Curtis - 11 - GE - 5A
9. Ethan Mumaw - 10 - JW - 4A
10. Anson Worrell - 12 - BVNW - 6A


171
1. Breck Arnberger - 12 - CB - 4A
2. Alex Feldkamp - 12 - DB - 6A
3. Chase Nelson - 12 - WH - 6A
4. Tyler Hasenbank - 12 - CON - 4A
5. Noel Richardson - 12 - CHP - 4A
6. Grant Hinckley - 12 - LS - 5A
7. Ryan Taylor - 12 - GL - 321A
8. Chaston Hoeme - 12 - SC - 4A
9. Jake Price - 12 - CV - 4A
10. Greg Curtis - 12 - GE - 5A


189
1. Boaz Beard - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Darnell Bortz - 12 - PRT - 4A
3. Aron Elsen - 12 - GB - 5A
4. Nate Davis - 12 - LB - 5A
5. Mark Kolmer - 11 - EMP - 5A
6. Treat Bugbee - 12 - CB - 4A
7. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC - 4A
8. Brandon Reif - 12 - WC - 6A
9. Sawyer Krone - 12 - BE - 321A
10t. Fernando Martinez - 12 - GD - 321A
10t. Jarad Sanches - 12 - SMW - 6A


215
1. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB - 4A
2. Kyle Caylor - 11 - WNW - 6A
3. Steve Kyler - 12 - ES - 321A
4. Jake Cole - 12 - BC - 5A
5. Jacob Nowak - 12 - STA - 5A
6. Taylor Wuthnow - 11 - AB - 4A
7. Howard Johnson - 12 - GB - 5A
8. Levi Kindel - 12 - CON - 4A
9. Kendall Pierce - 12 - CIR - 4A
10. Jake Woten - 12 - OE - 6A


285
1. Lucas Vincent - 11 - ON - 6A
2. Tank Burns - 11 - COL - 4A
3. B.J. Finney - 11 - AN - 4A
4. Lorenzo Serna - 11 - EMP - 5A
5. Trey Page - 11 - WNW - 6A
6. Jared Rice - 11 - PH - 321A
7. Tony Marquez - 12 - BC - 5A
8. Dennis Devader - 12 - HOL - 4A
9. Cody Huffman - 12 - DO - 321A
10. Dillon Salmans - 10 - HOX - 321A


I will still accept any material criteria that could change these results.

*THESE RANKINGS ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH KWCA*

_________________________

I'm surprised you even have Smith Center of 321a ranked. There has to be some more 5a and 6a power teams out there. Maybe Beloit could be in your top ten. Whoops there 321a also.

If I remember correctly, I think Abilene took 6th at the Beloit inv...

I lost to starnes and patenaude in the beginning of the season. then to bj at garden city. i only wrestled page once.

didn't burns lose to finney twice before?

finney did beat burns 3-1 at basehor and 2-1 at rose hill i believe both were OT. but burns won 3-1 where it counted... state.

I moved you ahead of Page.

Lorenzo beat Trey Page of Wichita Northwest 3-1 in the finals of the Newton T.O.C.
His losses are...
One loss came from Michael Starnes of Andover Central during the first tournament of the season.

I can't think of the loss in between these two losses.

Another loss came from B.J. Finney at the Garden City/Rocky Welton Tournament. I believe he lost to B.J. in Overtime 2-1

has vincent ever met burns? i'm certainly not questioning the ranking, just wondering if the two have wrestled each other in high school

Hard to believe Colby can beat Derby by 75.5 points at Newton and be ranked below them in your final team rankings! Very interesting!

Good point RJW1 Also according to your rankings

Derby is ranked 2nd at 103 about 20 points in a tournament 10th at 140 about 2 points in a sixteen man bracket and 2nd at 171 20pts. at total of 42 points.

Colby 10th at 112 2 points, 1st at 171 24 pts. 6th at 189 7 pts. 1st at 215 24pts. 57pts total.

In a mythical all class tournament in which all these wrestlers were to wrestle and keep placing points out to 6th place. Then Colby would have a total of 57 pts. to Derby's 42 points. Puts Colby ahead of Derby not to mention we were 2 and half points behind Emporia at Newton and beat Derby by the above mentioned 75.5 points at Newton.

Am I Missing something Chief?

The only thing your missing is that Colby is also ranked at 103 in the all-class rankings!

Colby ROCKS! ;-)

At one point during the year, I changed the criteria for the Team Rankings. That change reflected a Grand State scenario. Due to popular demand, I reverted back to a scenario where the entire team would be represented. If you look at the individual placers for each team and assign point totals for each of the medalists, it will get you pretty close to my top ten team ranking. Once you do that, you have to consider the strength of each of those brackets. That's where the subjectivity creeped in. Knowledgable subjectivity that is!