By the way, my proposal accomodates MS and JH seasons (unless there is a JH/MS league or group where the season goes beyond the HS season. In that case that group REALLY needs to change their season!). I DO NOT want to eliminate the participation of JH and MS wrestlers. I DO believe we need both but I also strongly advocate gymmom's position of taking the chains off of the athletes to let them do both at the same time. It has been my experience that MOST of these programs DO NOT have weekend events or VERY FEW weekend events. I have never understood the harm in letting a wrestler do both even in HS. Many, many other states take a much more relaxed position on controlling their athletes. I really fail to see the justification for such strict control.

Every year we discuss shortening the season but you will hurt the MS seasons. Through out the state the MS season lasts from Mid November until Mid March. We have several clubs in our district that finish up their MS season the weekend before Sub Districts. In the past they went until the week of District but finally moved their season up one week. Our MS starts in Mid November and finishes the first week of March. This is what has kept us from shortening the season at the end. Will has many good suggestions, most of which have been discussed in the past. Until we can get the MS seasons all the same it will hurt the MS'ers. I can not see the KSHSAA changing any of the MS seasons. One of the problems with moving the State tournament every year is that when it is moved from one location they will fill the weekend with another venue and most likely keep it every year. We use to hold the State tournament in Salina. As soon as we left for the Expocentre they brought in the Womens college basketball finals.

I say leave it the way it is. There is about 12 weeks of regular season. Our family likes to take at least one weekend a month off. I assume most familys take at least a few weekends off or more. This leaves maximum of approx 8 regular season tournaments. I dont want it cut down to four. We love the sport.

Lance,

You have to think outside of the box! You contract the venues three or four years in advance so that the venue is not full. The cities want our tournament and with the economy the way it is now and for the next few years they will be begging for events! Move the 2nd state tournament to the next weekend then so you do not miss any middle schoolers. My plan does NOT harm the opportunity for the middle school wrestlers. I have to ask though, What in the heck is a league doing having their MS or JH season running PAST the HS season??? That seems crazy. They can move that withouth KSHSAA doing anything. Leaving it the same should not be an option. If you are not changing you are not improving. If you are not improving then you are becoming obsolete. We need to change this now while the numbers are only slightly falling off. It will be too late if we wait until they dramatically drop off. We have to put our tournament in a position to grow. It cannot grow today so please Lance, think outside of the box. Go to your league, which might be the ONLY league of MS/JH wrestlers that goes beyond the end of HS season and beckon them to change so we can move the state tournament series.

Michael,

No one is shortening the season! This plan advocates moving the state tournament series. That will NOT prevent clubs from having kids tournaments or you from taking your little guys all over to wrestle in other events. I know you are going to Brute and that you go to other events outside of Kansas. If you want more wrestling it is out there for you. This is about addressing the majority of others who DO NOT want to keep wrestling until the end of March for state. This plan does NOT prevent YOU from wrestling all year round if you want.

Will,

I'm sure you know that if you move the state tournament series, it will effectively end kids club tournaments for that year. There is currently nothing to prevent a kids club from having a folkstyle tournament in April, but you know that it would not draw enough competitors to be worthwhile.

Has anyone actually done a poll to see what people actually want? I'm not sure there is a clear majority on when people want wrestling to be over.

Let's face it most clubs really don't get started until after Christmas (tournaments) some clubs have scheduled tournaments in December but that's not really when most are competing.

I second the motion to Michael's "leave it alone". We also decide when we want a weekend break but to have the State series done before the HS wrestling finals is just a cop out. Sure we like supporting the Labette Cardinals and they finish up the 3rd week in February @ Nationals. I can also state that we've "been there" in having a novice wrestler and a HS wrestler. Of course the HS wrestler and then onto college always came first.

We also play soccer in the fall and spring and wrestle a little in the summer.

My son wrestles for Maize Middle School and they finished their season the weekend prior to subdistricts. I don't want the season moved earlier. I would just like them to be able to do both at the same time!

Will,

I think you skipped over the part where our (McPherson) MS season is over the last week of January. I agree with you. We talked to our MS to get them to end the season one week earlier to allow our wrestlers to participate in the Salina tournament. (Then we only had one wrestler enter.) It would be nice to have all the Middle Schools have the same season. What some towns do is allow the students to do both basketball and wrestling. Some towns have to do that to fill both teams. I was just pointing out what we run into with some of the MS seasons in our district (District III not the school district). We use to have to allow walk-ons at State because some schools hadn't finished their season. Our school competes against schools that start their season at different times through our MS season. I am willing to "think outside the box." As I stated earlier you have some great ideas. I agree with gymmom, I wish KSHSAA would allow our kids to participate in club events as long as it doesn't interfere with the school program. Keep the ideas coming. We do need to do something!

Allowing kids to wrestle both middle school and club is what really needs to happen, so that the kids that need some stiffer competition can go and find it somewhere. If they are getting what they need in MS, don't bother with club wrestling u ntil after MS season is over.

And an early March finish to the season would be fine by me as well. Plenty of opportunities after that to wrestle as well: Freestyle, Greco, Reno, Iowa, etc.

Doug

There will be a meeting of the board to decide where next year's state tournament will be and how long we will enter into a contract for that venue. I STRONGLY support a one year deal. It would be nice to go to Wichita once since we have been in Topeka for 23 straight years. Surely the Wichita folks can practically give it away for one year to impress the wrestlers and parents with what they can do in hopes we would vote to come back. We absolutely MUST have a one year agreement this year to position our organization for finding a better way to manage our season, structure our events, and grow our membership. Please contact your district director or sub district director and encourage them to vote for a one year contract to allow us to explore, in depth, the various options for improvment. Better yet, come to the meeting on Sunday, April 19th, in Salina. It will be your best way to find out what the proposals looked like and how it was voted on. I think a room full or parents who support changing the season would definitely open some eyes!

In our area MS wrestling begins just as our MS football season ends. The boys/girls wrestle while MS Girls Volleyball is in session. Then it goes into both boys and girls Basketball sessions. So...our MS kids are up and going by December. Didn't realize that for some the MS season doesn't end until March! Our High Schoolers and MS wrestlers are only wrestling for about 2 weeks together. And as for missing out on watching High School State Wrestling...we just take that weekend off...and miss Liberty Nationals
Next year will bring both a jr high and hs wrestler to our home. So our season will be extended. I would like to see my boys be able to wrestle a national tournament during their school seasons! That would be wonderful!
I am not for eliminating the 16u....as next year will be my older sons last year for Kids State and he would be pretty upset at the last chance at a winning that venue. So I'll be petty and not support that one!
We aren't finished for this season either as we'll be headed to Brute this weekend. And the boys are already talking about Freesytlye and Greco...and the Sunflower State Games in July!
What I like about wrestling is that you can choose how long and how difficult your season will be. If you and your kids are burnt out...take a weekend off.

Sorry for the long post! But I do think more parents should attend the meeting on April 19 as suggested by Will. If you feel strongly about change then be there and speak your peace and maybe we'll see a few improvements in the years to come!

Keep the High School kids and leave the season the way it is. High School kids in the practice room really increase the intensity. You wil see the 12U's and young 14U's really step it up to impress the High School kids. Letting them practice together is something special that is not allowed by KSHSAA. Because of this any change that eliminates the High School kids from participating in the kids state series, I would be against. But, Middle School needs to change. It all needs to be in the Fall, it needs to be long enough for the kids to actually learn something, and it needs to allow participation in Kids Club wrestling also. And, I see on the internet, some states actually have a Middle School State - why can't Kansas.

I agree with wrstlmom1970. Clearly "Cokeley" has no idea what it is like to live in western Kansas. DeSoto is proximate to all of the events in the eastern part of the state. What about us out here? Maybe "Cokeley" should take a trip out west sometime and realize wrestling isn't just an eastern Kansas exercise! The west side is the best side.

Mr. Take a Whiz,

Clearly "Cokeley" has a VERY good idea of what it IS like to live in Western Kansas. I lived in Liberal from 1963-1981 and went to Fort Hays from 1981-85 back to Liberal for two years. You are going to have to go to Elkhart to get any farther west.

Since I am proposing to move the Kids State tournament to Wichita, Salina, or Hays by using a split format I am completely in touch with what is needed to be fair to those out west. Change is rarely received with open arms but often necessary. Without change there can be no improvement.

Well, the "west side" is the best in 3,2,1A, but overall, my vote for "best" is the Wichita Area.

Yeah, whatever.

XGHSWC. Isn't that what Wichita State had on their basketball shorts in the 80's?

Why would I follow that or even care? I mean come on, Wichita State Basketball? So, I do not know what you are referring to MrWizzzard. That is the first that I have heard of that.
Now Wichita State Wrestling, I will definately follow that.

There is never enough support from all of the clubs at the State Body Meeting, just from the cities around there. People need to get together from other clubs and carpool to Salina.
Most middle schools don't even start until football has been over for at least a month. If we could get them to understand that 98% of the wrestlers don't play BB, then starting the wrestling season earlier wouldn't be a problem. I agree that 6&u (the biggest division) should be added to kids state, and the kids need to have an opportunity to support the High School and college championships, so maybe another State Tourney for 14&16 is realistic. The only problem with this is the young kids in the programs really enjoy the older kids in the room at the end of the year, but we have to give up something to make gains.
As far as where State is wrestled at, let's take the political votes out of it and put it in the kids hands, the District that places the most kids at State the year before, has bids on State next year!

Mr. Wizzard, please explain what you are talking about. I have been following this thread from the beginning and I do not believe the intent was to make it an East vs. West debate, it was about how to improve wrestling. If you have specific points about how some of the recommendations will not work in the West, please explain to us in the East and let us know why. Lets try to build a discussion and not just attack.

And, Mr. Wells, we start wrestling about 1 day after football ends and then we start Kids Club a week after Middle School Wrestling ends. Works perfert - based upon the rules as they are. That is what needs to be changed - the rules that stop Middle School wrestlers from participating in kids club.