Doing away with subs will only help the best kids.If you have a full bracket at subs you will get a 16+ bracket at dis.

I do think that the bottom end of the weight bracket needs some changes.I do not think putting boys in the heaver end all bunched together will make things better.

No one says you can not skip on some days.I know most do not go to every turnament.If you want spring break off take it.I know no one in our club will come drag you off the beach.

I do think some National turnaments would be good.Even just more state=state would be nice.

The problem with taking spring break off is that it is always during the qualifiers or state tournament. It wouldn't be a problem if spring break fell in the regular kids club season.

Great feedback! One thing I am confused about is the three state tournament comments. I suggested two:
6,8,10 In early February (requires subs, dist, state)
12,14,16,18 In early March (requires dist, state only)

There are lots of good questions and there is no solution that will satisfy all of the concerns and issues but status quo is definitely not a good answer.

Please email any and all of these folks:

Kids Executive Council (click here for additional information)
Executive State Director Ned Price
(913) 367-7095
Nedrick.Price@sodexo.com
Executive Ass't State Director Tom Richard
(785) 537-4935
tomr@cbsmhk.com
Treasurer Leanna Buckley
(785) 944-3630
lbuckley@twinvalley.net
Secretary


Parliamentarian Richard Salyer
(316) 541-2764
RichardDSalyer@sbcglobal.net
State Freestyle/Greco Director Kyle Roberts
(620) 792-3504
kroberts@usawks.com
Officials Representative Loren Anthony
(316) 320-2470
janthony3@cox.net

District 1 (go to Kids page for additional information)
Director Lee (Tuff) Hermreck
(913) 294-5658
hermreck@skw-inc.com
Assistant Director Mark Stanley
(785) 286-0899
mstanley@haydentower.com
Assistant Director Joe Cisper
(913) 491-4846
cisper@hotmail.com
Freestyle Director Tom Peterman
(913) 262-9656
Raslion1@sbcglobal.net

District 2 (go to Kids page for additional information)
Director Jess Keith
(316) 721-4430
JessSK@cox.net
Assistant Director Kenny Taylor, Sr.
(316) 744-3753
foxktgt@aol.com
Assistant Director Scott Biddle
(316) 394-2533
centralwrestlingclub@yahoo.com
Freestyle Director Charles Knox
(316) 685-5948
teamofhardknox@sbcglobal.net

District 3 (go to Kids page for additional information)
Director Lance Engel
(620) 241-5679
llengel@ks-usa.net
Assistant Director Darrel Loder
(785) 546-2096
drloder@sbcglobal.net
Assistant Director Michael Brownell
(785) 632-1464
coachbrownell@yahoo.com
Freestyle Director James Cook
(785) 227-2379
jcook@maswu.org

District 4 (go to Kids page for additional information)
Director Steve Woody
(785) 626-3309
stripes@ruraltel.net
Assistant Director Kyle Wright
(785) 877-3834
kylew@ksdot.org
Assistant Director Scott Edwards
(620) 338-2987
scout68@cox.net
Freestyle Director Kent Hahn
(785) 425-7108
stcktonrx@ruraltel.net
Freestyle Director Joe Arellano
(620) 640-4851
swgrapplers@cox.net


Please copy me on your suggestions, comments, proposals, concerns, etc. I would love to get a movement started and keep the momentum going.

willcokeley@gmail.com

Will, I was referring to the HS state tournament in the middle of the two you have down. That is where I got 3 tournaments from.

i really thing we could learn alot from a good old okie like coach craig. I just have to wonder do the kids learn more in the club or the Jr. high wrestling. I talk to alot of dads that say even if they had jr. high wrestling they would stay with the club. I dont get it why the jr. high programs start so late but i would like to see the season cut around a month earlier. I would like to start freestyle in the next few years but really doubt my son is going to want to wrestle for 7 to 8 months. 5 months is long enough. someday if we actually start listening to some of the ideas from the other states and make it happen you will not hear kansas wrestling say we are still getting our butts kicked by oklahoma and iowa.

So Will,
If I wanted to express my opinion on the length of the season, where we should have state, and some ideas on different weight classes what steps should I take.
Let's say I'm in district 2.

Walk me though it!
What Would Will Do?

HA! Instead of WWJD - we need WWWD wrist-bands! ;-)

Will, you might find the link below informative and entertaining:

http://www.thematforums.com/myforum/?show_forum=4

High school national forum. One thread is about 'how is your state tourney ran?' Dealing with KS having THREE sights and how that compares with other states (hint: I haven't read of a SINGLE one yet that has 3 different locations like us!) -- this thread even has some cool pics!

The other thread on the same forum that I think would interest you is titled:

"Do you guys think states should be one-class (in any given state)?"

Instead of traveling to oklahoma why don't we just start the same time they do? And end the same time they do!! 16u not sure they belong in kids state, getting pretty old and thay have their chance in HS. 14u yes if we can decide if they can do both Jr. high and kids club. If we would start the same time as Ok. just think of all the different venues to pick from, Kansas kids in Oklahoma and Oklahoma kids in Kansas, and neither one trying to wrestle the others State tourney!!!! Tulsa, JOC, Kansas kick-off (if happens) Salina, Wichita classic, this is where you can tell how good your kids really are. Shorten the season and wrestle the big ones, but don't forget about your local tourneys, not having to travel a long distance is crutical to some....What if the season was shorter, all you would have to do is get 2 clubs to hold one big tournament instead of 2 small ones and run it together (IMO) This would still bring in the numbers and make for one kick butt tournament

I have been asking this question all season. My son wrestled middle school for the first time and did have a wonderful team experience unlike he has ever had with kids club. However, the competition was not as tough and this may have hurt him some in the long run. It is my understanding that the Kansas High School Activities Association is the one who made the rule about middle school kids not being able to wrestle kids club at the same time. I do not see why this would be a problem as long as the wrestler was at every middle school practice and dual/tournament and then did kids club on the weekends and when ever else it could fit in. It would only make for better wrestlers. I know this rule has been around since I was in high school (80's) and applies to swimming and any other sport. Does anyone know why they made this rule? Has anyone ever tried to get it changed?

Well said Beeson! I went to the NCAA Championship every year from 1987 to 2005. But since back in Kansas 4 years ago I have missed the last 4 NCAAs due to our scheduling here. The kids need to be watching college and high school championships.

My dad took me to all of these things to watch for years. Every big tournament I ever wrestled in (high school state to Olympic trials) I watched several times before ever competing in them.

He had the attitude, "how can you expect to visualize or win a tournament you have never seen?" Of course he also thought outside of the box more than most people do. . . something you have to do to become a champion!

Eric, I think its very important for guys like you among others that wrestled in college to push for this at the state level. Those things coming from guys like you might, just might make those guys that make all the rules actually begin to listen at what really makes a difference. My question is this for all those that make the highschool and kids wrestling rules. What kind of wrestling do they do in college. So if we make folkstyle 6 months and freestyle what 1 or 2 months what does that actually do for our kids when they get to that level. Dont you think it would be worth while to shorten the folkstyle season and start the freestyle a little sooner. I really dont know because I havent had a chance to get my kid started in freestyle because by the time that starts my kid is done with wrestling physically and mentally. He is ready for baseball by that time. It is ok for kids to play 3 sports these days right.

Yes!
The rule is:
A student who is a member of a school athletic, scholars’ bowl or debate squad effective Tuesday following Labor Day through Friday preceding Memorial Day may not participate as a member of an outside team or as an independent competitor in the same sport, scholars’ bowl or debate activity.

The purpose of the KSHSAA is:
This Corporation is organized not for profit and it is organized and shall be operated exclusively for the following educational purposes:
(A) To contribute to the education of the middle/junior and senior high school boys and girls of Kansas by:
(1) Administering a program of interscholastic activities, festivals, clinics and contests among member
schools.
(2) Elevating the standards of good sportsmanship and encouraging the growth of good citizenship, not only for middle/junior and senior high school boys and girls, but also of adults and all others who come into contact with school activities.
(3) Protecting member schools from exploitation by special-interest groups.
(4) Encouraging pride in scholastic achievement as a fundamental basis for a well-balanced activity program.
(5) Serving the best interests of all member schools by influencing the proper type of legislation or any other desirable means.

The KSHSAA Mission Statement is:
Mission Statement

Goals that Influence Student Learning Outcomes
The Kansas State High School Activities Association advocates principles and sponsors services which assure that the state’s middle level and high school students gain a balanced preparation for life, work, and post-secondary education.

Principles on Which Intended Outcomes are Based
Principles advocated by the association are promotion of scholastic achievement as a fundamental basis for a well balanced activity program, and development of effective citizenship through the practice of good sportsmanship.

Services to Accomplish the Mission
Services provided by the association are:
1. sponsorship of educational workshops, seminars, conferences and publications designed to inform and positively
influence students, parents, educators and community members in accordance with organizational principles;
2. administration of a program of interscholastic activities, festivals, clinics and contests among member schools;
3. protection of member schools from exploitation by special interest groups; and
4. communication with policy-making bodies to influence decisions consistent with association principles and operational standards

Yes!
In past years there have been several organized attempts from the Kansas City and Wichita areas to introduce legislation in both the Kansas House and Senate to address the "Outside Competition" rules enforced by KSHSAA.

Also, there was a lawsuit filed several years ago by a group of Wichita area parents which did affect several KSHSAA changes. I will have to research my records, however as I recall, the decision also clearly stated participation in KSHSAA sponsored activities was not a stucent's "RIGHT" but was a "PRIVILEGE"

Collegiate wrestling is folkstyle. I returned last night on a red eye flight from the NCAA Tournament held this past weekend in St. Louis and the FOLKSTYLE wrestling was incredible.

[/quote] Collegiate wrestling is folkstyle. I returned last night on a red eye flight from the NCAA Tournament held this past weekend in St. Louis and the FOLKSTYLE wrestling was incredible. [/quote]

The most important thing, I believe, is getting kids ready to be competitive high school wrestlers (Folkstlye). As I stated earlier, I am probably not helping my son progress in wrestling by not having him wrestle Freestyle/Greco during the summer. I still think that he will do well in high school, and that is our goal. These guys that wrestle in college, especially D1, they are a very special breed. I watched the NCAA Tournament finals when I got home yesterday (WOW!!!!!). After next weekend, my son will move on to Jr High track, soccer and baseball. He might go to a wrestling camp this summer, but other than that, wrestling begins again next fall.

Richard,

Just to clarify, only during that activity's "season". Wrestlers can compete in wrestling tournaments outside of the season. Actually they can compete up until they join the team. In other words they could wrestle in tournaments all the way up to New Year's or perhaps up to regionals if they have not joined their hs or ms team. I believe.

By the way, Tuff Hermreck, as of this evening, has not received any email, U.S. mail, or phone calls regarding support or suggestions for changes. Lets heat up the cell phones and fill up the email boxes!

Great posts keep them coming.

Ned Price

With response to Cokeley's comment about the "season". We wrestled and strongly support middle school wrestling. We chose to wrestle some kids club (Ks and Ok) tournaments prior to our middle school meets. Our middle school pratices started prior to Christmas break and our first meet wasn't until January 27th. However, the powers that be in our district informed us that our middle school season began the day practice started, not the day "we set foot on the middle school mat". Hope to get them (ad and administrators) to see the light and the grave error they are making. Anyway we can't actually compete with kids club until our season is done, sometimes the week prior to the Classic/Hays tourney or subs. (Think I posted about this on the high school forum.)

Our competition was good with the middle school program. Saw many kids we know from other kids clubs. Not all in our weight bracket, but know the names.

I don't think making the kids club folkstyle season shorter and therefore eliminating the kids who wrestle middle school, is necessarily the answer. I realize a lot of people are not affected by this, because they don't wrestle middle school, but there are many good wrestlers who do. (State qualifiers, placers and champs.) I don't know what the answer is. There is more to it than "well, just don't wrestle middle school". I have come to the conclusion that those that make the decisions (KSHSAA, local school admin., etc.) don't like change and probably never wrestled. (lol) It is just too complicated and easier to leave things as they are.

Cyclone, I agree with you totally! Making the kids club season shorter and eliminating the kids who wrestle middle school is not the answer. My son wrestled middle school as well and we are now on our way to kids state. I think it would be tragic to just adopt the attitude "well, just don't wrestle middle school." I think we need to push the KSHSAA to reexamine the rule regarding not being able to do both. That rule was put into effect well over 30 years ago! I venture to say that things are different now and possibly the reason it was made, may not be as big a concern now. I know the rule applies to other sports as well. I'm sure swimmers would like the rule changed as well.

I think you are right about about the KSHSAA not liking change. I made a call to get a little clarification on why the rule exists. I could tell during my conversation that the attitude towards change is not favorable!

KSHSAA is going to have to been informed by your Superintendent (or a high level representative from your school system) that you want this rule changed. They DO NOT listen to parents. Your school official needs to lead into the conversation by reminding Rick Bowden and Gary Musselman that they work for the schools, not the reverse. Change can be made but you will have to move quickly to get several high level school officials to more or less ambush KSHSAA. The easier alternative would be for all MS or JH wrestling programs to drop out of KSHSAA. Rick Bowden told me that a great number of MS and JH schools ARE NOT members of KSHSAA while nearly all high schools are.

Next time you call them you might get a more friendly response if you mention my name to lead into the conversation!