Guys, this youtube link of Cokeley/Blair proves two things. Blair lost control and Herman counted. This angle removes all doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNRd5WG2bA

First of all, we really need to let this go. The match is over, Blair won, Cokely loss. Two good wrestlers had a good match, and now it is time to move on to other matches. With that said I am just as guilty because I am posting.

Ok, the video does not PROVE anything. From this angle it is my judgement that Blair loss control, and Cokely should have recieved an escape, sending the match into one more 30 second period. My ten year old told me the same thing and he was at the matches.

The Video does not prove that Herman counted, it does look like he did though, but that is interputation. Herman knows the rules enough to give two if he had counted. Why did the St. James coaching staff not question the count?

This video only PROVES that two wrestlers had a good match. Calls sometimes are for you sometimes against, that is life. Good lesson to learn for all of us.

It is time to move on to this weeks great matches.

About moving on... Why? Is this thread taking up room? It's just a conversation addressing the previous limited videos on the match. Chad, That count that Herman threw was as violent of a count as I have seen this year. It started at his hip and went above his head. The reason for this thread is in response to those out there that claimed that Blair had control of Ryne's leg the whole time and that Herman did not count and was just hurrying over to that side. Both are clearly false.

To say that sometimes calls go against you and are a life lesson is elementary at best but more so a demeaning dismissal. It's that lack of accountability that feeds the apathy that we are trying to get rid of.

it's at least a 1 point- loss of control call, it looks more like 2 point- reversal to me. i also have watched it on video, not live. referees make mistakes too, i have always coached to the kids to LEAVE NO DOUBT. however i'm not sure what the 2nd referee is for, you would think that 1) as beeson said the sja coaching staff might have a few questions, and 2) that herman would consult with the 2nd referee. it looks like he is on the opposite side, and probably didn't realize that blair lost control/ then regained control of the leg.

all that being said again, i am just as guilty as the rest. WE HAVE GOT TO LET THIS GO. it's starting to sound like a lobby for instant replay in wrestling.

it's going to be 50 degrees today. is that too sunny for wrestling? let's here about the BOBCAT!!

Punch,

It's no lobby for IR. Just get it right. See the mistake and grade officials with a goal of improvement. This surely hasn't kept anyone from focusing on the matches coming up. I have worked on my seeding chart since last week. Can't wait till Friday morning!

I am kinda expecting the Shawnee Mission School District to issue sunglasses and sunscreen to protect them from the bright sun this weekend.

a great concept. i would like to hear more. has this been proposed anywhere before? who would decide whether it was a mistake or not? who would submit the alleged mistakes? would there be a point system? to determine what, a paycut, or suspensions? this doesn't sound half bad, but it seems like it would require more jobs/time/and money. would you limit the number of challenges?

not trying to be a pain here, but it's something that i have seen on here a few times, but wasn't sure if it has gone any further. also haven't seen any real, outline of the process.

i thought they wore sunglasses because, their future was so bright. do they wear them at night?

Chief, I'm not saying we shouldn't care, but the video clearly proves nothing. Like Punch said, by the time Herman got back into position, it looked like Blair never loss control. This is not a slight on Steve for being out of position because, standing still would have been the best thing to do. With the movement he did the right thing. The question still remains, why didn't the St. James coaching staff question the count? Apparently they did not see Herman throw a clear count either.

Now to get everyone's hackles up. Instead of making excuses, I would have told Jake. If you had wrestled as hard in regulation as you did in O.T., you would have won that match. Do not leave the match up to a judgement call. Knowing Will,that conversation has already taken place.

I'm not saying don't care, I'm saying quit whining.

The weather up there must be nicer, no sunscreen or sunglasses down here.

LEAVE NO DOUBT!

I am the having a flash back of the photo of the "hanging chads"

Does anyone see the attitude that the stj kid gets after the match? He throws his head gear off the mat be for he shakes hands and then he mocks the Valley center kid and aims it at the Valley center coaches. That is Absolutely RUDE and Unsportsmanlike. Is that even necessary? It Was a Tough match, yes! but it all happens for reasons...

I am glad you pointed that out! I am not sure if anyone noticed. What does everyone else think? LOL

Too funny

Wrestler10,

Check the Topic Derby Finals, you will find about 8 pages of what people thought.

I think the coaching staff is just at fault for not addressing the near fall wave done by Herman. It is my interpretation of the rules that if a near fall has been started this signals a loss of control for a reversal, meaning Cokeley wins. Cokeley had every right to be upset with the call, but his coaches needed to back him up by talking to the ref at the table before Blair's hand was raised. But such is life. Maybe Blair and Cokeley will meet again in college wrestling and will finally settle this great debate of 2010.

Chief Renegade, Thats not loss of control. Cokeley needed to establish control and he never did. He put Blair in a bad spot but never established control. Thats a college scramble there.. You see them all the time in College and that call is rarely made in favor of the guy who would have been in Cokeleys position.

Solid call by Herman. Or should I say, Solid no call by Herman!

Great scramble by both young men.

funny how i was at a college dual last night and saw that call 3 times. anytime you lose control of the other wrestler with both arms, and your back is exposed it's at least loss of control(1 point for the degensive wrestler). the defensive wrestler doesn't have to establish control to get an escape or loss of control call, the offensive wrestler has to maintain control. sorry max, not trying to start a fight here, but we have already established that the ref was in a position where he couldn't see the loss of control.

What College Dual was this? I've been to plenty of college duals. Wathching them, wrestling in them, and coaching them.

It doesn't matter what position Herman was in. Refs do make that call from time to time. But if you ever watch the ncaa rules video of tough calls. They tell the refs to allow the scrambles time to work them selves out. Reason being too many refs were calling the "quick 2 td or reversal" and these kids these days hit these scrambles and nullify what looked to just be a td or reversal

Chase Nelson got screwed on a similar deal. Nelson hits a slide by on Feldcamp, Feldcamp sliped out and put Chase in a bad spot Chase immediately somehow funked out of it but the ref was already calling 2.. The ref in my opinion decided that match... I think Herman showed great patience and letting them scramble. Yes you can see him almost jump the gun and make a call but he let them wrestle... End result I think was the correct call.

Wow. Seriously? Folks think that's an escape? No chance given the level of skill exhibited by these wrestlers during the match. The scramble had to be allowed to play out. If a mistake was made, it was the apparant arm swing.

This is all about emotions. I could give you an explanation of why it is not an escape, but it would not persuade anyone. People's minds are made up based upon their feelings.

Clearly, there was a missed USC at the end of the match. Team point. There was probably an escape given to Red at 5:52 on the edge that was too generous.

Great match. Lots of strategy. Somebody had to win. In this match, you needed to earn points. Nobody should be expecting the ref to bail you out on a close call. Earn it.