What is appropriate to say about 321A and 4A is that it is much more difficult to qualify to state than 5A and 6A. This is because of the sheer size of brackets 16 plus kids versus 8 or less.
No!, it is not appropriate to say this.
There are kids that are not going to state that where in the NW Wichita regional or the Bishop Carroll regional that would qualify in just about any other region regardless of class. Tell them it's easier when they have already beaten 4A/3A kids that are going. They would love to have been in 4A or 3A. And I looked at the brackets and they don't all have 16, especially in 3A, some had 10, not much different than 8 huh. Anyway, it is not the quantity of kids in a bracket that makes it tough, it is the quality. It all comes down to which region and which weight. That is what determines who goes to state.
X,
Name them! I know that there were a few brackets in the big school classes that handed out free passes to state. You will find that NONE have done so in 4A or 321A. In 4A, no regional had 16 teams because only 60 schools have wrestling programs. With 15 teams attending, it makes it pretty hard to have a "full" bracket. In 5A, the Shawnee Heights regional had just 4 full brackets and 1 with only four wrestlers (GO TO STATE FREE CARD!). I know that the 5A regional hosted by Turner had lots of incomplete brackets and at least one with a the FREE PASS being handed out. I wish I could analyze all of the regionals but unbelievably the brackets for most of the 5A and 6A regionals are unavailable.
Ooooh, you have really taken me to task with your challenge Cokeley. I can get started on that with no effort at all Mr. Smarty Guy.
You were obviously more concerned in finding something to contradict me on then understanding what I was saying and why.
Your little challenge of one comment that I made should not have been the focus but it became your focus and thanks for the critical analysis.
My point, once again to you AND ANYONE ELSE, was that uneducated people make inaccurate statements about the greater number of losing records in 5A and 6A like, "5A and 6A are weaker because they have more losing records at state" and "You can see from the losing records that it is harder to get to state in 3A and 4A". Both comments are offensive but that is not my problem. My problem is they are totally inaccurate and anybody who makes those comments is uneducated in this area. We can now add "5A and 6A should be combined because of the number of losing records at state" to our list of ridiculous comments made about losing records in 5A and 6A. I will comment on that later as combining 5A and 6A might not be such a bad idea but certainly not for the reasons stated.
Aside from the fact that maybe those kids had harder competition which we cannot verify perhaps, perhaps we could, the real issue, which I already stated more than once, is the regional alignment. Whether it is right or wrong is not an issue for me to pass judgement on but the regional alignment or should I say disalignment is the cause of the effect (number of losing records in 5A and 6A) not the weakness or strength of a particular class and/or difficulty of state qualifification in a particular class or even size of a class.
Hopefully we are on the same page now and we can move forward.
But I know you are in suspense now and I probably should at least give you something. And like I said with little effort.
Tyler Selves of Goddard at 135 and 4 state qualifiers he either beat or placed ahead of with a common opponent are presented.
Lets start with Pollum of yes, St James Academy, lost by fall to Selves at Basehor as did Hansen of Baldwin by fall. Pollum was 3rd and Hansen was 1st at regionals. Pike of Basehor a regional runnerup and Hurla of Rossville a regional champion both lost to Hansen who Selves beat. Weaver of Chapman beat Hansen 5-1 while Selves pinned him. With some more time I could come up with plenty more examples. So how do you think Selves feels when he hears that it is easier to get to state in 5A and 6A than 4A and 3A? It probably will be tough to swallow. It probably won't add up. Bottom line is it won't wash at all. He would have obviously qualified in more than one of their regionals, if not all. But he was in the toughest 6A regional with 6 of the top 10 teams in the state. That's the problem.
You see Cokeley, I am not just some parent of a wrestler with an opinion. I am a head coach by profession, 20 years total more than 10 in Kansas. When I was the coach at Goddard, when they were in 5A, we regularly attended what would amount to the Bishop Carroll regional of this year, the toughest for sure and according to the rankings. Every year we had good kids that did not qualify. They then got to go to state and watch someone in 4A, as they were all at the Coliseum then, wrestle and many times even earn a medal. When I coached at Southeast which was and is in 6A, we attended what amounted to the Manhattan regional, the other tough 6A regional. Same thing. I have years of experience and data to draw on and not just biased opinions.
At my sons weight this year, there are several kids that he has beat or placed ahead of this year that placed higher than he did at their respective 4A/3A regionals so how was his regional easier? How was it easier for him to get to state? Rashad Newhouse of Wichita South with a 19-9 record is not going to state because he lost to my son and he is definitly good enough and would have beaten some of those kids as well and maybe even did. I really don't want to mention anymore 4A/3A kids but I will if you must. But I could almost guarantee Rashad could have placed at Basehor. Some 4A kids that did not are going to state. If I were Rashad, I would be pissed that I was in 6A and would wish I was in one of those 4A/3A regionals that are "harder to get thru to get to state" because its tougher or has more teams.
But to that effect, once again its not the quantity that makes a bracket tough, it is the quality. So a 16 man bracket is not necessarily tougher than an 8 man bracket or even a 4 man bracket that affords a GO TO STATE FREE CARD. As I went through the 135 pound 4A/3A regional brackets, I couldn't help but notice that none of them had 16. In 3A they were 10, 13, 15 and 13. In 4A they were 12, 15, 12 and 11 and we are talking about 135 not 103 or 275. So the whole massive 4A/3A bracket thing is way over rated. But that's not the point anyway as once again, its not the quantity that counts, its the quality.
If the whole 5A/6A losing records thing really bothers you, OR ANYONE ELSE, then you should try to convince the state to do a better job aligning the regionals, not just by geography but by quality. But the answer is definitely not to say inaccurate things about 5A and 6A to make yourself feel superior because you went to state in 4A/3A.
A side note is I know that some 3A regionals like Norton and 4A regionals like Pratt are tougher than other class regionals as well. I also know that you could probably start some research now showing how some kid in 4A/3A didn't qualify and beat some kid from 5A/6A. And that would probably just validate what I originally said which was, "aside from had a bad day, it's the quality of the regional and weight that determines the qualifiers and not the size of the class or the bracket or perceived toughness of a class".
But its definitely not accurate to say "5A/6A has more losing records so its easier to get to state than 3A/4A". Tell that to Tyler Selves. It will be a tough sell.
