Yankee,
You are absolutely correct! Goddard is well coached and they seem to find a way to win. Garden City will give them stiff competition next year (returning 10 qualifiers over the past two years). There were only three seniors on this years team. Garden City flew under the radar for about half the season. Next year should be another fun year. Good luck!

I dont know what radar you were looking at but the one I was looking at had a huge blinking light out in western kansas. Im sure there are a couple other teams out there ready to give Goddard some competition. Lets start the season now we had a week off thats long enough.

Drake Lovvorn, Holton beat Sam Son at the Wichita Park City Classic in overtime! Exciting Match on both sides!
Nice Job Drake!!

Kim Lovvorn
Holton

Im still confused as to why the all class rankings are even being adjusted? I would think they would go until high school state was over but maybe the chief is hoping that someone will win over another ranked above the other so he can change the All Class. Was this done last year like this? Park City Classic is a kids tournament not High School and so is kids state. As I have been told before, the following tournaments dont matter because the high school wrestlers dont wrestle up to their best like they did in High School so here is some of the tournaments that I was told dont matter when it comes to all class rankings.
Park City, Kids State, Brute Adiddas Nationals.



Mel

They were adjusted last year. Kendric Maple beat CJ Napier in the Big School vs Small School dual breaking their tie. The ALL CLASS ranking is NOT a KSHSAA or KWCA sanctioned, sponsored, or even embraced ranking system. The Chief does rankings for Wrestling USA Magazine for Kansas. Those rankings take into consideration ALL wrestling. Freestyle, Greco, Preseason, In Season, Post Season. Who told you that any match doesn't matter? Where is your sense of pride? Oh we didn't care if we won that match because it was outside of high school season and doesn't matter. WTH?

Wow, what was that?
A very nonanalytical atypical response from Chief, more like a copout. I agree with Yankee, that was just blah, blah, blah.
But you did give 12 responses to the 12 questions I had but not exactly the type of response I was looking for. You gave me exactly what I asked not for which was biased opinionated crap.
Maybe I should just start over and make it easier for you and just ask you one question so you could focus on one really good response and not blah, blah, blah.

First I should say before I go on that I mean no disrespect to Clay Center, their wrestlers, coaches, parents and fans. They are a great team, maybe the best. I would have no problem with Goddard being 2nd to Clay Center. I mean obviously that is nothing to be ashamed of. But for me just winning the Mighty 4A state tournament is not enough to make a blanket statement that they are the best team in Kansas and certainly no blanket statement from one man with an opinion is enough either.

Second I should say its all just fun, interesting and entertaining so no, I do not need to chill out or unwad my panties. I am obviously having fun. I am fine and I will be fine in the end when nothing has changed because I do not expect Chief to change anything. He has his opinion and he will stick to it and I will stick to mine.

So Chief, one question for you, why is Clay Center ahead of Goddard? No stop, don't answer because I already know your answer.....strength of team. What the h... is that? Ask me why I have Goddard ahead of Clay Center. No need to because I will just tell you.....strength of team. Who the heck are you to say Clay Center has a stronger team than Goddard. I know, you are Chief and it is Chief's list.

Maybe Clay Center just reaped the benefits of Andale misfortune. If Andale would have won 4A we would not be having this discussion and Clay Center would have the same team. If Clay Center would have "choked" at just maybe one weight and Valley Center would have got a break at just maybe one weight, we would not be having this discussion and Clay Center would have the same team. If Goddard would have "choked" at just maybe one weight and Derby would have got a break at just maybe one weight we wouldn't be having this discussion either and Goddard would have the same team. But the difference is Goddard had already got there "choke" by being at the toughest regional when Selves didn't place so they didn't deserve any chokes at state. All of their kids that placed at state should have and they probably should have placed more including Selves who probably would have placed so all that is mute to me.

Right here is where I should say, I mean no disrespect to Derby and their constituents. They have great kids and great coaches. They certainly didn't get the breaks at state. They did however get the breaks at regionals where they were able to qualify 14. Goddard meanwhile was at the toughest regional and only got 11 through. So Goddard won state with 11 kids while Derby had 14. Put their 14 with our 14 and hey lets say Valley Centers 14 together in a tough tournament say like Derby and you can see the result.

Now to Valley Center and Andale. They are both great teams with great kids and great coaches. They had the toughest regional by far in 4A. Valley Center got 8 to state while Andale got 10, well 9 because you can't count Hattabaugh. Meanwhile Clay Center which had a tough regional just not as tough as Pratt got 11. So Valley Center got second in 4A with 8 kids while Clay Center won it with 11. Put Clay Centers 14 with Valley Centers and Andales 14 and would the result be the same? I won't answer that and can't. The system is the way it is and the regionals are the way they are and that's just the way it is, it is what it is. Andale may have had the best team of all and I have already expressed my sadness for their misfortune, but you can only measure the end, particularly in sports.

So that's all coulda/woulda/shoulda, Clay Center won the 4A tournament and Goddard won the 6A tournament and we are back where we were in the beginning asking why is Clay Center ahead of Goddard? Strength of team? If so, how did you measure that?
And in the end, it really doesn't matter. Just remember being the Chief is a big responsibility and with it comes great accountability so don't get upset when people take you to task. Just be happy that you are the Chief. And have a great day!

you sure typed alot, to get this one little bit of sense out there. you are exactly right, he is Chief, it's Chief's list, and Chief says Clay Center is better than Goddard. I personally think Goddard is better, but i don't have a list, or don't put it on the threads, i'm too lazy. Chief works hard, and makes his list public, you can do the same. it will be cool we can have Chiefs poll, X's poll, the KSHAA poll, the media poll, and the coaches poll, the mommas poll, we can take the average of each poll, and award the overall "mythical" champ. we'll call it the PCS Poll Championship Series. heck we can skip all the middle stuff, we don't even need to wrestle, we just hand out medals according to the polls. this is going to solve everything. i'm just kidding, you are right, it is fun, and i think we all appreciate the hard work it takes to keep this up, and I KNOW WE ALL LOVE TO DISAGREE!!! great stuff guys, keep it up.

Thank you, great post, you are right and you just made me laugh.

I hear you X. I didn't have the time to answer in detail. I will address the CC/GD comparison tomorrow. Remember that I had GD #1 in 6A in mid January. When GC got on a roll while CM was their 119 pounder, I had to set them atop the rankings. I did spend a fair amount of effort comparing CC/GD.

Let's look at it soon.

Mel,

For the most part they are done. I have solicited input after state to correct any obvious errors. Last year I waited till after the Big/Small to settle the tie between Maple and Napier. I plan to do the same this year and also consider the results from nationals in Virginia. After those events, I will post the final rankings and order the team shirts.

10-4.

Clay Center vs. Goddard

The analysis that I did after State led me to choose CC as the #1 All-Class team. I am more convinced after a closer look. This is a tournament scenario and not a dual, but for the purpose of comparison I will present the weight by weight opinion.

103: Bonilla v. Roberts - GD - Large
112: Kolterman v. Martinez - CC - Slight
119/125: Singular v. Lemon - CC - Slight/Medium
130: Kolterman v. Belle - CC - Slight
135: Singular v. Selves - TIE
140: Anderson v. Houlden - CC
145: Yarrow v. Elliott - Slight edge to CC.
160: Easterberg v. Le - CC - Large
171: Davis v. Spencer - CC - Large
189: Anderson v. Beard - CC - Slight/Medium
215: Hicks v. Delp - GD - Slight
285: Woodruff - GD - Large

Awarding Tournament points in my scenario would give CC an 8-12 point advantage over GD. I ran down each SQ using commons that I could find.

Ok Chief, nice analysis but not exactly what I came up with.
You are obviously biased to Clay Center for some reason.

103 Bonilla GD over Roberts CC big.
112 Kolterman CC over Martinez GD maybe, could be a push. Martinez has wins over Locke, Prescott and Kmeic. Neither placed but both probably should have. Which ones show up.
119 Lemon GD over Chapman CC big.
125 Singular CC over Kimple GD big.
130 Kolterman CC over Belle GD small, maybe a push.
135 Selves GD over Singular CC small, at worst push.
140 Anderson CC over Houlden GD small.
145 Elliot GD over Yarrow CC small, at worst push.
152 Mitchell GD Canizzo CC push.
160 Esterberg CC over Lee GD big.
171 Davis CC over Spencer GD small to medium. Nobody beats Spencer big.
189 Beard GD over Anderson CC small. Walker beat Anderson by major and stuggled with Beard. Additionally Beard beat the kid that beat Banner who you had at # 1 before state.
215 Hicks GD over Delp CC maybe slight, but could be bigger than you think obviously. Delp got beat by Bush who was pinned by Kaylor at Newton. Kaylor stuggled to beat Hicks.
275 Woodruff GD over Converse CC big.

I have Goddard 7-4 with 3 pushes. Will give Clay Center 2 of the 3 pushes for the sake of argument making it 8-6. Even if I give another win for the sake for the sake of argument it is 7-7 at best. I hate to say it Chief but you are tripping on your analysis. Matching them up in a dual or tournament would reflect similar results based on what I have looked at. But nice try. Additionally, I heard a story about how depleted Clay Center was at Newton and I come to find out that they were pretty much at full strength only having Roberts and Yarrow out who no way would have scored enough points to over take Garden City. Additionally, Colt McElroy would not have given Garden City enough points to beat Goddard at state as he would have placed in the same spot as Hurtado at regionals and would not have scored 13 more points than Hurtado did at state which would not have been enough. Even if he beats Humphrey he losses to Witten. On the back side he losses to Norris, at best he places 3rd or 4th which would not have been enough.
Goddard is #1.

OK X,

You are way off in so many places, I will try to respond. Interesting that an ex Goddard coach with a son on the team would claim bias on someone that has no affiliation to either team and has been charged by some to favor the big class. That comment was not even a nice try.

As I stated, this is not a dual. CC would be without Chapman, Canizzo and Converse. GD is without Kimple and Mitchell. I gave GD Selves.

103: Correct
112: Kolterman has a slight edge over Martinez in my opinion. He also has a win over Prescott and fared better at state in a tougher bracket. (Alex Wolf took 6th at 37-4).
119/125: This comparison would be Logan's team points vs. Lincoln's. Edge Singular.
130: Not a push. Kolterman placed 4th and lost twice to a 40-1, Schmidtberger, 5-2 and 4-2. Belle got majored twice, albeit to two tough kids in Locke and McComb.
135: No evidence that either has an advantage.
140: Tre had a great year and state tournament. Little wrestled Anderson pretty close but Anderson destroyed Hood once and beat him 11-5 at state. I have no evidence that Tre can beat Hood. This match would not be that close in my opinion.
145: Yarrow's injury made this one a bit tougher. He bumped up in the dual with Chanute early on and lost 8-7 to Sam Son at 152. The only common that I saw was him pinning Price(LV) who Elliott teched. In the end 4A/145 was MUCH tougher with Cokeley, Morgan, Weller, Collins, McGoldrick and Hayes having a combined 220-32 record! Yarrow lost 6-5 to McGoldrick at state. McGoldrick beat Sterling Terry soundly at Derby before Terry beat Elliott for 3rd. Also at 4A state, Yarrow pinned Horsch who lost 5-2 to Elliott at Derby. All said... slight edge to Yarrow, not Elliott as you stated.
160: Correct
171: You need to clarify that nobody beats Spencer big. Madl pinned him in the 1st and a 6-5 Shockley pinned him in 2:30 at state. In my opinion, Davis does the same.
189: In my opinion, your biggest misstep. Anderson went 37-2 and destroyed most everyone in his way. Beard finished strong, no doubt. However... Beards bracket was unusually weak in comparison to 189/4A. A 40-2 Grimes got hurt in his loss to Anderson. Tyler Gjerstad did not place. I have other commons that would bury your prediction at this weight. In my opinion, Anderson wins this match 10 out of 10.
215: Your Caylor common doesn't mean much. You know Caylor as well as I do. I am a big Josh Hicks fan and was really glad to see him get the Knudson monkey off his back. I would give Hicks the slight edge in this one if he is at his best, which I assumed he would be.
285: Correct

That delivers a Clay Center victory.

Ok Chief.
Sorry about the tripping comment, it was uncharacteristic for someone who abhors derogatory comments.
But how do you consider my comments about Garden City who was definitely better than Clay Center Week 2 January at Newton?
I will relook at my tournament points placing Goddard in the 4A tournament.
I am sure everyone appreciates the free entertainment at our expense though.
Have a great day!

ok one i dont see y there is all this fighting over who is better all it is is rankings so dont have to get all worked up but i will put my two cents in so I would like to say i think Clay Center is better and u will argue all the duels and stuff but put the goddard kids in 4A and see how they do truly i think it would change a lot because i doubt that two of there champions would have in been in the finals at 4A so I just dont think they are better but i guess i could be wrong

I did notice that the Goodard Heavyweight lost to Wilson of Leavenworth twice at the state tournament. Converse beat Wilson at the Newton Tournament in their only meeting of the season. Converse was injured in that same tournament ending his season. We missed a good number of points at the state tournament without him, but that is part of the sport. Many of the top teams have a legitimate argument about who is #1. It is nice to have such a competitive field of teams across the state of Kansas.

I wonder what this argument would look like if Jake Hattabaugh had not been injured? This injury really kept Andale from making a serious run at state.

Let me just throw the scenario out there for you: Hattabaugh is healthy wrestles to his potential and wins state this adds roughly 22 points to Andale's team score at state. They now are sitting at 127 total points in the 4A tournament. Hattabaugh taking 1st moves Lucas Cortez of El Dorado to the backside where he meets up with Colton Easterberg of Clay Center in consolation semifinals. Cortez wins and this moves Easterberg to 5th or 6th. Now Clay Center receives something like 124 total team points at the 4A tournament. Then Andale is likely the team is at the top of the Chief's rankings. This is all hypothetically speaking.

This is in no way to diminish what Clay Center has accomplished this season. I just wanted to throw another perspective out there.

yes ricky u have a good point i would agree and say if Hattabaugh was healthy Andale would have won State and they would be top of Goddard by far

Eventhough this maybe a cause for some controversy, throw Emporia in there on a few dual matchups with the top 3.. Keep in mind Emp had an injury at 112 that kept him out all season till league..

I just find it interesting to see how some people view matchups so differently..