If I understand .org's KSHSAA is a nonprofit 501-c-3 most likely. But since the majority of their funds come from member institutions (public schools) they should be subject to Kansas Open Meeting Rules and regulations, minutes, etc. It would be nice if a few TV stations (ESPN) , major news papers USA Today,
Wichita Eagle, KC Star, News reporters from all over the state make an appearance on both days.

My guess is they will have an open meeting on April 23, Friday at 4:00pm for discussion.

The action meeting they might try behind closed doors.
The Saturday meeting April 24th 9:00am - Final Action meeting needs to be open to the public and news media. They can close the meeting for Board Elections (maybe) because it is "considered a personel matter". But action on the decision to expand or reduce the classes should be open. I need some legal advice on this one.




Kansas State High School Activities Association
BOARD OF DIRECTORS AGENDA
MEETING LOCATION—KSHSAA OFFICE, 601 SW Commerce Place,
Topeka Kansas
Friday, April 23, 2010—4 p.m.
(hearings and discussion only)
Saturday, April 24, 2010—9 a.m.
(final action and Executive Board elections)

Members of the KSHSAA are proposing this. According to Dave Moreford, a MAJORITY of 4A coaches across the state support this proposal.

Even the most simple mind should understand that this proposal will increase costs. In fact, just adding another football team from each district a few years ago drove up costs. There isn't an athletic program in the state that produces revenue for a school. Creating more classifications is exactly the opposite direction we should be moving in when we have the fiscal issues we have right now. Instead of worrying about how to get more teams into the post season we need to be worrying about how to save ALL sports from being cut. We should be shrinking KSHSAA as there is an administrative cost burden that is beyond what is necessary.

Seriously NCKL and Frontier League...How do you propose we justify the COST of your proposal? How do you pay for it?

The problem with the entire public school system and KSHSAA is that the majority have never done anything but accept taxpayer dollars. They do not know how to generate revenue to pay the bills, they just ask for it and then freak out when there is none left for them...

Of course they are....it cuts the competition in half therefore doubling their chances of coaching a "State Championship Team". This is where the kids are getting this attitude, from the coaches. If it is too hard, water it down and then maybe we can win that state championship.

"Members of the KSHSAA are proposing this. According to Dave Moreford, a MAJORITY of 4A coaches across the state support this proposal."

Understand; the point I am making is the KSHSAA Staff are not proposing it; member schools are--specifically, the Frontier League and the NCKL.

Coaches, for the most part, are not the ones who will be voting on this proposal as most members of the BofD are principals and/or ADs with some BOE members sprinkled in. In the past with other situations which were B-I-G changes, such as as this, a "vote" of local BOEs, with a "ballot" signed by the local BOE President has been required, AFTER there was state-wide discussion and votes of member schools at the Fall Regional meeting which was followed by further consideration/discussion at the November BofD Meetings.

On the other hand, the BofD DOES have the power and authority to enact at the April Meeting.

I agree with Smokeycabin; if you have strong feelings on this matter and are able, attend the 4:00 p.m. meeting on April 23 at the KSHSAA. If you cannot attend, send a letter (no profanity or name calling).

Is this entire proposal setup to be jammed through - as the current (outgoing) Board members exit and before the new board members are elected.

You are joking aren't you? Seriously, there is generally a lack of coverage for nearly all Kansas sports outside of Football and Basketball though all the forms of media here. What in the world would make you think that the media would take some sort of serious interest about this?

Frankly I think people are kind of jumping the gun on this a wee bit early. Let me preface the next comment by saying I personally wouldn't support an initiative to increase the number of classes as I share the same opinion with several others that we already have too many classes in the state. I also believe that small school districts across the state should be forced to consolidate in order to try and trim the overhead from multiple sets of administration. This is especially true considering the budget shortfalls the state is currently facing. That being said, I do find it somewhat amusing that considering some of the other issues that have been raised on this forum, that all of the sudden people are up in arms about giving more kids more opportunities to participate in more competition watered down or not.

Just a month ago there was a big to-do about NFHS potentially changing the existing weight classes to try and facilitate more full brackets across the nation. And just now at the kids level people are upset because some of the brackets at State won't be full because existing by-laws do not allow alternatives from other districts to fill. This really isn't a situation where you can have your cake and eat it too.

What is boils down to is, it appears that a small group of schools/ads/etc have made a proposal, and that KSHSAA will discuss it and that will probably be the end of the story. KSHSAA has for many years been very slow to adopt radical changes to it's standard operating procedures. So what you really have to ask yourself is, do I seriously think that KSHSAA is going to make a huge change like this on a whim? Answer: NOT VERY LIKELY.

Relax a little and live your life, cause you only get to do it once.

"Is this entire proposal setup to be jammed through - as the current (outgoing) Board members exit and before the new board members are elected."

BodD members terms of office are staggered.

". . .KSHSAA has for many years been very slow to adopt radical changes to it's standard operating procedures. . ."

wrestlingspectat: I agree that generally this is true. However, there are some times when the KSHSAA surprises; for example when the BofD changed the summer coaching rules it was a "wham-bam" deal. A change of that magnitude would have NORMALLY been implemented AFTER a "guidance" vote was taken at the Regional KSHSAA Meetings along with votes by Members' local BOE's. This was the procedure used when the expansion of the football playoff system was implemented. For the summer coaching rule change neither of these things happened.

I agree with your assessment that this may not happen and it will probably not be done at the April meeting, but again, the BofD has the authority to take implementing action at their April meeting.

Someone was asking...A Sampling of Private School State Titles:

Baseball—
2009 St. Mary’s Colgan, Hayden
2008 Bishop Ward, St. Mary’s Colgan
2007 STA, Bishop Ward, St. Mary’s Colgan
2006 Bishop Ward, St. Mary’s Colgan
2005 Bishop Carroll, Bishop Ward, St. Mary’s Colgan
2004 Bishop Ward, St. Mary’s Colgan
2003 Bishop Ward, Salina Sacred Heart
2001 Hayden, Wichita Collegiate, St. Mary’s Colgan
2000 Wichita Collegiate, Salina Sacred Heart

Basketball Boys & Girls
2010 Bishop Miege, Collegiate, TMP, Berean Academy
2009 Bishop Miege, Collegiate
2008 Hayden, Wichita Trinity, St. Mary’s Colgan, Berean Academy
2007 Miege, TMP, Collegiate
2006 Atchison-Maur Hill-Mt. Academy G - Wichita-Collegiate
2005 Hays-TMP-Marian, Pittsburg-St. Mary's-Colgan
2004 Overland Park-St. Thomas Aquinas, Bishop Carroll, Hayden
2003 Shawnee Mission-Miege
2002 Shawnee Mission-Miege, Pittsburg-St. Mary's-Colgan
2001 Overland Park-St. Thomas Aquinas, B - Shawnee Mission-Miege, G - Shawnee Mission-Miege
2000 Pittsburg-St. Mary's-Colgan

Boys & Girls Soccer:
2009 STA, St James, St James
2008 STA, KC Christian, St James
2007 STA, STA
2006 STA, KC Christian, STA
2005 STA, KC Christian, STA
2004 STA, Maranatha Academy
2003 STA, Miege
2002 KC Christian
2001 Wichita Trinity
2000 Miege, Hayden, STA

Boys & Girls Golf
2009 Collegiate, Colgan, STA, Hayden
2008 STA, Hayden, Collegiate, STA, Hayden
2007 STA, Collegiate, STA
2006 Collegiate,
2005 Hutch Trinity
2004 Wichita Kapaun
2003 Kapaun, Collegiate
2002 Collegiate, STA
2001 Hayden, Collegiate
2000 Collegiate, Wichita Independent

Cross Country Boys & Girls
2009 Bishop Carroll, STA, Berean Academy
2008 STA, STA, Maranatha Academy
2007 Bishop Carroll,
2006 STA, STA, KC Christian,
2005 Bishop Carroll, KC Christian,
2004 STA, Bishop Miege, Bishop Carroll, Salina Sacred Heart
2003 Wichita Kapaun, KC Christian, Salina Sacred Heart
2002 Bishop Carroll, KC Christian, Hutch Trinity, Hutch Trinity
2001 Hutch Trinity, KC Christian

Volley Ball
2010 Miege, St James, Collegiate
2009 Miege, St James, Collegiate
2008 Miege, St James,
2007 STA, Hayden
2006 STA
2005 All Public!!
2004 Miege, Salina Sacred Heart
2003 Miege
2002 Miege
2001 STA, Bishop Carroll

You make a good point, however I would surmise that a rule change such as summer coaching which is very simple to implement and really has no financial impact to either KSHSAA or the State, is a far different concept than an expansion of athletic classes, leading to more competitions, more oversight, more work for KSHSAA, more post season events, more money spent, etc.

So private schools aren't focsed on football, track, and wrestling? I believe, if you sort this out, there is only a real dispartiy in GIRLS sports as a whole.

It still all boils down to those who are willing to spend the eextra dollar are also willing to spend the time and energy to get their kids to the top. The other fact that is missing is that private schoolsare almost exclusive to the metro areas. The rural areas have NO choice and maybe they are jealous?

Greg Mann,

Who is going to pay? How much more would it cost to do their proposal? Surely they have to cost justify their proposal?

Yes Sir Mr. or Ms. wrestlingspectat I am serious about the media being notified prior to KSHSAA Board meeting - absolutely.
I will give them names to contact and a set of questions the people of Kansas might like answered prior to their potential vote to add more classifications and how they plan to pay for it. At the 5A & 6A state tournament did you see how fast the management team of the New Intrust Bank Arena folks in Wichita changed their policy within 2 hours of massive pressure by the people using the facility. The all day pass was only good if you stayed in the building all day. Intrust management came up with the stamp the hand plan and more people bought hotdogs all day. Sometimes the policy makers need to get out of their offices and shovel some snow, dig a ditch, mow a little grass, so I am jumping the gun. Why did they start discussing this proposal back in the fall? If we do not ask questions - most likely will not get any answers.

I think you might have missed the point of my post, which was that the media really doesn't care about the general everyday workings of KSHSAA. No matter how many newspapers, radio stations, television networks you notify, you can be almost guaranteed it isn't going to make a newsworthy piece. I guess if you are really vigilant you may get a one paragraph mention at the back of the sports section of small town Kansas chronicle. If you are running for state office this probably isn't the plank to run your campaign on

Focus on the financial aspect. That effects everyone. Every homeowner! This proposal will cost more and we are facing fiscal cuts everywhere.

I don't speak for all the rural areas, but jealousy is not the problem. It's the idea of having your cake and eating it too, then being so vocal as to your plight that you verbally attack anyone who says anything about it. As noted above by Gary's list, the percentages of private schools winning championships from 2000-2010 is disproportionate to the percentage of schools that exist in the state of Kansas.

What's wrong with saying because private schools have open boundaries and therefore they pull from a larger population than the public schools, that they should in some way be brought to a level playing field as the public schools. Choosing to pay a higher tuition is not in itself a leveler in competition. No, it's not jealousy, but it doesn't seem right.

If I had to guess, I would say the additional classifications won't fly. Nor do I think you will see private schools put into a classification by themselves. What I do think will happen is there will be a multiplier enacted for private schools as is used in various other states.

"Who is going to pay? How much more would it cost to do their proposal? Surely they have to cost justify their proposal?"

Will Cokeley,

If you are talking about added costs for local schools for splitting 4A into two, it would probably be no more than currently.

If you are referring to the cost of the KSHSAA state championship events the costs of the actual state championships are covered by admission and entry fees.

The costs for the preliminary rounds in the various sports would not be any more expensive than they are now as all schools take part in the first round of state playoffs in all sports, (except football).

If you are referring to the cost of additional KSHSAA staff to oversee an expanded number of classifications, I do not see any additional would be required.

". . .very simple to implement and really has no financial impact to either KSHSAA or the State. . ."

Really not as simple as you may think: liability and summer pay, issues with the small schools who share athletes between sports.

You are right there were no costs to the KSHSAA, but the KSHSAA is supposed to take into consideration how changes will affect its member schools. In this instance I do not think there was consideration given.

It was a HUGE paradigm shift.