Interesting thread. Conjures up memories of arguments past.

On the one hand, the athlete who aspires towards greatness, or at least,to be associated with the elite athletes of his chosen athletic endeavor,will likely focus his exclusive talents and attention on that given sport - to the exclusion of all others. (I suspect this is more common in the "larger" schools)

That particular athlete's motivation could also be financial, such as to enhance his prospects to receive a necessary or helpful athletic scholarship(or in the case of a recent Maize graduate - to preserve the opportunity to take advantage of a lucrative professional baseball contract)

As often as not, his athleticism and/or talents would be very welcome in other athletic endeavors and would likely prove to be a welcome addition, should he decide to participate.

His parents, to the best of their abilities, will devote their considerable time, talents and otherwise lend their financial resources to their son's quest.

On the other hand, we have some steller, exceptionally talented and gifted, athletes who still choose to participate in several different athletic endeavors (Bell, from Wichita Bishop Carroll,immediately comes to mind) He endures the "risk of injury" (potentially impairing scholarship opportunities), perhaps allows his skills in his "best" sport to "idle" a bit, while he chooses to participate in several sports endeavors.

Which path is best?

I certainly would not deign to weigh in with an opinion on this issue. Take for example, Ryne Cokely. Ryne is presumably one of the better or best wrestlers in the state of Kansas, and certainly a known presence on the national stage. From comments I have read on this forum, Ryne has chosen "wrestling", as his passion and his preferred athletic endeavor. Ryne is fortunate to have the enviable support of his parents and the unquestionable desire,discipline and intestional fortitude to allow for successful competition at the highest level. Let's hope it serves him and his family well!

Simarly, we have a Colt Rogers - an equally amazing athlete, who decided, presumably, for his own reasons, to be a multi-sport competitor. And, from what I've read: what an amazing athlete he is! I'd venture a guess that Colt's parents (not unlike the Cokeley's) have made considerable investments of their time, talents and finances in their son's athletic endeavors.

I suppose my point is that the "Cokely's",the "Roger's", and all parent's who support the efforts of their children of our state should be applauded,commended, and perhaps exalted for the presumed investment(be it time, finances or otherwise) they have obviously made in the lives of their sons.

Call it a hunch: Colt and Ryne will be all-right. They have the enviable love and support of very involved parents!






Then we have the athlete who

Mr. Johnson (usawrestling),

I did see where you said Colt should get the nod. I was only replying to the part that you said "Shame on you for coming into a wrestling talk forum and dogging kids that LOVE to wrestler no matter what month it is." I didn't think it was his intention to dog on any wrestler. I don't think his comment about wrestling 10-11 months out of the year was a slam either. A kid that puts that kind of dedication into something should be better than his peers.

I just hope that when Ryne gets his 4th next year that people congratulate him on his success instead of making demeaning comments that belittle his outstanding accomplishment. (this is not directed toward you, but to those who have made such comments about Colt)

The spelling comment was a joke. I almost did a follow up post 5 seconds later so that noone would take that seriously. I guess i should have put a or a after it.

It is my belief that if you have to do that, then the sarcasm wasn't any good to start with. Leave it out and make them wonder, that is what I do!

Mr. Cambell I understand completely where you coming from I have to been taken to serious at times on this post board.

I understand that some people are bringing both wrestlers down to try and prove there point 2 fathers sticking up for there sons which they should not be criticized for cause we all know most Fathers for the most part would say, do , or act in any way to protect/defend there son’s in something they both feel strongly about. And ive seen on another post that Colt ceraintly holds the state record for takedowns break sharky slyter record if iam not mistaken.

These are the Facts iam stating on here
1. Colt is a 4xer with qualities wins over Hase which I believe gave Nathan Furches his first high school loss
2. Ryne is a 3xer with good win over to many to count because of him national success.
3. Cade a 3xer with maybe one of the biggest upsets for his first title over Crank in the Quarters
4. Chase prolly would of possibly been a 4xer if he didn’t have those dang keller brothers.lol.  just to point out said that in all joking matter.haha
5. And Taylor that has jumped leeps and bounds from joining the SJA in my personal option and cold bang with the best.

Now for my Option on the fab 5

I would have Rogers, Ryne, Caylor, Paker, Chase

1. Chase only two titles but his freshman and sophomore year I believed had the keller that became a sr national champ.
2. Caylor for being a 3xer in big weights which is an amazing feet and ive had the honor to have had serval wonderful battles with him.
3. Parker for that fact of his complete power of his weight as he has grown and beating Kendrick maples on a beautiful press is no feet that’s should be over looked
4. Ryne for his traveling and domination at some times with big dog of not only the state of Kansas wrestling but the nation of wrestling countrys state so forth. Speaks for itself.
5. Rogers for his 4th title and a humble young man which no matter what will always have those titles.

And back to you Mr. Cambell about your comment about you hope no body dogs Ryne next year if he is successful in winning his 4th title I read this talk form as much as the next person I he has been trash talked / slammed on here as much If not more then any other wrestler that’s been talked about which is a shame so iam sure there will be haters out there come next year but as in the same case as Colt I don’t think it with bother Ryne in any way because hel be able to look at those 4 4a state champion ship medals.

Just my thought sorry if I affend any body for leaving off your picks

I think I am attacking nearly every 321A AD who won't change the wrestling team' schedule! Smith Center and Norton do step out and wrestle a more difficult schedule but I would like to see more 321A teams attend the top 5 individual tournaments in the state. I would also like to see more 321A guys join the junior and cadet dual teams and go to Fargo.

My point on the lineup...If Mike was only protecting Colt why would he say ANYTHING about how SJA adjusts their lineup?

I don't wear any so I didn't take that comment personally.

I like Mike (the entire Rogers family) and I am not mad now. It just seems that much of the conjecture on here could be eliminated by AD's scheduling the best competition for their teams and/or individuals. All three of the best HS tournaments in the country permit individuals to attend. Silver Lake did it this year and SJA has done it in the past. Schedule two events and take your team to one and your elite wrestlers to the other. That way a JV wrestler gets to wrestle in a varsity event he wouldn't have otherwise been able to. The individual tournament is bolstered by adding some studs to the brackets and creating the marquis matchups that all wrestling fans love to see. Just because it has always been done "that way" doesn't mean it is the best way to do it.

"My point on the lineup...If Mike was only protecting Colt why would he say ANYTHING about how SJA adjusts their lineup?"

Because someone made a comment that Taylor made the effort to seek out tough competition by bumping up to wrestle Nitcher, while Colt does not.

Sending PM on the rest

As Taylor Moeder's father I was as proud of his season this year as I could possibly be. I was also very proud to see his name on this list when it was posted. Heck after reading the thread clear thru I almost feel it would have been better to have not been mentioned. But I definitely would feel his year warranted consideration. I dont see the need for he and Colt to be compared head to head. The list wasnt about weight classes, but about the top 5 overall. Easily could have been Colt AND Taylor on the list together. Anderson of Clay Center impressed me considerably and he also put together a great year and could have an arguable spot on the list. D. Deshazer - obviously pretty solid and worth consideration. Several others as well.
I planned to stay as far away from posting on the topic as possible but I am confused by the suggestion below by USA Wrestling:

"Now for my Option on the fab 5

I would have Rogers, Ryne, Caylor, Paker, Chase"

I have absolutely no problem with Taylor not being on your list, but I would be interested in how someone he beat head to head this year is on the list?? And then you will have to explain dropping Blair just the same. I think you are using some other method of reasoning than I am on your selections.

Taylor does belong on the list. So do the rest of the Fab 5. There are arguments for others as well. And the arguments should be made in a tasteful manner without bashing other wrestlers. See Moeders post for an example.

Anyone who is even mentioned in the Fab 5 thread should feel honored, it means that your one of the very best Kansas has to offer even if you don't ultimately make the list.

Tell Taylor congrats for me. Looks like he's been wrestling tough.

Mr Moeder

I understand that taylor beat Nitcher How ever this is my option theres no certain way to prove that my methods are correct in any way.

1. I feel that Chase got the nod sully on the fact that as a sr and his high school record show’s itself. I am not meaning to demoralize Taylors high school résumé in any way but he has not yet finished his career in high school maybe iam playing Elders but its just how I feel,
2. However I dropped Cade rather than Ryne because of his fargo success far succeeds three state title that Blair has not saying Cades medals mean nothing because they do to a lot of people I personally enjoyed Cade success after watching his quarter finals match against Crank seemed like a very humble and determined young man
3. I added Colt sully because he accomplished something some people dream about. I added Caylor maybe because I know him on a more than opponent relationship me and him share txts on a daily basis however besides that 4x finalist at a weight that is dominated by so on so grown men is a very very impressive feat which payed off to his D1 Scholarship and 2x fargo champ in my eyes is greater than any state medal just my opinion.

Iam only 20 years old and has only been involved with wrestling since the age of 13 so my opinion might seem some what bias I have not traveled the world and seen a sun set in China or ate lunch in Japan I do not claim no know everything and def do not think my opinion are correct to other people I am not going to try and persuade anyone on into anything.

Honestly, I have absolutely no problems with your opinion at all USA. You had just stated earlier that the head to head should cancel them out and that if Caylor was on there , Kolmer shoud be ahead of him; then you list Caylor instead. Your posts on the topic are contradictory of eachother. I guess I just wasnt sure which one you were actually going to stand behind.

Good call Tim i didnt recall putting that post on there i guess my out look have changed talking to other people about the subject i guess you can say ive been turned on some points.

After watching the match, I definitely would say that quickness is something Missouri referees have more of than KS referees. The guy had his coffee that morning; that's for sure.

The Fab Five are still intact. I applaud Colt Rogers for wrestling Nitcher. Sounds like it was an exciting match.

VERY exciting and well worth the 1.5 hour one way drive!

How is my Fab Five looking now?

Cokeley - In Finals at Nationals!
Moeder - In 3rd/4th match!
Blair - 2-0
Madl - 2-0
Nitcher - Injured.

Rogers - Lost 12-5 in first round.
Anderson - Lost 11-4 in first round.

CLASSY POST! Nice to see you get such satisfaction from Kansas wrestlers losing.

that's not what he's saying at all steve. he's simply stating that his fab 5 are the most dominant wrestlers in kansas. and i have to agree with him.

Well, I did think Chief's post was a mean-spirited in a sense. Stating the unstated. However, I do believe that that was not his intent. He is obviously a big supporter/lover of wrestling, and KS wrestling in particular.

To use a similar logic:

I saw the Colt/Nitcher match. Wasn't Colt wrestling a weight class higher that he usually does for the challenge of wrestling Nitcher? And, the the match was much closer than the score indicated. Colt unfortunately got in a 5-0 hole quickly but bravely battled back. Had he not started in that hole and had he been awarded 2 points for his tilt . . . obviously we have a different outcome. I bet if they wrestled each other ten times, they'd split 5 and 5. Additionally, it appeared that Nitcher might have been gassing a bit towards the end, while Colt still had some fuel in his tank. But anyway. . . Colt lost.

So, at Nationals - weren't they both one and done? No disrespect to them. Then I fall into Chief's game that I'm complaining about myself.

Parker almost got beat in his 6a final. He definitely gave up two points TD and barely won by the skin of his teeth . . .

Anyway. . . as we all know . . . this is just fun for us old guys. And I just hope we can keep it above board and not discourage the young men that are providing us the entertainment.

Finally, my dad can beat your dad in a fight. Ha. ;-)

I am not claiming to know as much about this as Chief. He obviously spends a great deal of time analyzing the subject as he maintains his all class rankings and I do think he picked some great wrestlers for his list. However, if I had a Fab Five list this year I definitely would have had Kyle Caylor on it and because of that I would have included Mark Kolmer on it also. Kolmer who is also a top state performer in football and track & field may very well be the best all around athlete in wrestling this year. Kolmer was undefeated and won his one contest with Kyle who I believe only had one lost this year. Caylor has had a great career for a bigger wrestler. He was in four state finals winning three of them. It is very difficult for a bigger wrestler to reach a state final as a freshman and to win as a sophomore in weight classes that are annually dominated by juniors and seniors. In my opinion Caylor has proved himself over his career and without a doubt deserved to be on a list of the Five Top Wrestlers in Kansas this year. By the way Kyle is also undefeated in the National Seniors tournament so far.