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Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: Husker Fan] #168295 04/11/10 05:30 PM
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A multiplier may happen. But even if it does, I personally do not think it is going to change things that much.

Good discussion. I have had my say on it.


Vince Nowak
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Please join the fight with your contributions

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: windjammer] #168317 04/11/10 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: windjammer

Any attempt to question it makes you a democrat, catholic bashing, soft on crime, granola eating, tree hugging hippie.

Some of us are labeled for life, get used to it!


Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: sportsfan02] #168319 04/11/10 11:15 PM
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Enuff said on this topic. Let's switch to something new. KSHSAA will or will not vote in April--or maybe in the fall. I have enough faith in them and the Executive Committee to believe they will make the best decision for Kansas high school activities.


Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168321 04/12/10 12:41 AM
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Contrarian, I am glad that you enjoyed the website and am actually impressed that you looked at it. But what you didn't pick up on is that catholic schools are now creating their own funding mechanisms (non governmental funded unlike public schools) to pay for special needs children of all types to receive an "equal" education to those regular kids in the catholic schools. I know from personal involvement, for example they take: Downs Syndrome, Autism spectrum, Behavior Disorders, drug and fetal alcohol syndrome babies. I think your wife could attest to the expanse and difficulties with these. Also you do not have to be rich to attend catholic schools just a commitment to your child's education. Hence, those involved with education are most likely involved in their kids athletics as well. Tuition can range anywhere from $6,000 to $10,000 per year. Scholarships are very limited and are given based on financial need and academics only, NOT ATHLETICS!!!! If you look at the MO example of the multiplier, it doesn't effect the Rockhursts of the world, but KILLS the athletic competitive potential of all the small schools. Look at Archbishop O'Hara in KC less than 5oo students and they routinely get beat up on by much larger schools. So when an educational choice is available which school would a talented athlete choose? To play soccer for a perennial champion like Rockhurst or never make it to state at an O'Hara? It will not hurt Aquinas whom YOU most despise, but will hurt small schools like St Thomas More Prep. Be Advised!

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: KC Sportsmom] #168418 04/13/10 11:15 AM
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What I would like to see, I have no time to generate the stats, is an accounting of the BIG 5 state championships. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Wrestling and Track. Then break it out by boys and girls. Is there still a private school disparity? I don't think you will find one in the boys big


Will Cokeley
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Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: Cokeley] #168423 04/13/10 12:15 PM
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WillyM Offline
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Why just those five, and why just boys. Shoud also do boys soccer and all the girls sports. Don't forget softball, a big, big girls sport.


Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168438 04/13/10 01:41 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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I just want to see where the true disparity is. I don't think there is any advantage in the big 5 (softball for chicks would be the same as baseball). Those 5 comprise, I am guessing, 90% of total participation.


Will Cokeley
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Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: Cokeley] #168442 04/13/10 02:15 PM
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Here again are some stats on state championships. I looked only at the KSHSAA listing of Current State Champions—softball and baseball stats are from last year 08/09—no 09/10 champs yet in these two sports. Did not include the country club sports---tennis, swimming, golf, or gymnastics. Did not include wrestling—a big sport-but primarily an individual sport—four or five wrestlers can win a team title- or a high team placing. Stats do not include 6A—no 6A private schools.

Football: two of four possible class champs (4a and 3A) 50%

Boys Basket ball: three of five champs(5A, 4A, 2A)—60%--plus a 3rd and 4th

Girls Basketball: one of five champs (3A)-20%--plus a 3rd and 4th

Baseball: two of four champs (4A and 21A) -–50%

Softball: zero of four champs-- two 3rds and one 4th

Volleyball: three of four champs (5A, 4A, 321A) –75% --plus three 2nds.

Boys Soccer: two of two champs (5A and 4321A) -100% --plus two 2nds

Girls Soccer: one of one champs (54321A) -100% --plus 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

I count 14 of a possible 29 (48 percent) state championships in these major sports won by private schools . This is an extraordinary number when only 6 percent of the schools are private.


Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168446 04/13/10 02:40 PM
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Sounds like the public schools, my kids' included, need to do something different.

The pussification of America continues. Sorry to steal your line Will.

This is exactly the same as raising taxes on those evil hardworking overachieving "rich" people. Those same evil "rich" people that create jobs for the "poor" folks.

I will always give help to someone that NEEDS help. But I will NEVER give help to someone that EXPECTS it.

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: doug747] #168456 04/13/10 04:17 PM
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There is a Tea Party tonight at Community America Baseball Park in KCKS . Why don't you attend Doug747.

Cokely wanted stats. There they are. You want to ignore them with some smart a**,non-sensical comment no way germane to the issue. I will lend you my dictionary if you need to look up smart a**, non-sensical or germane. I doubt if you will hear those big words at a Tea Party.

Last edited by Contrarian; 04/13/10 04:17 PM.

Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168468 04/13/10 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Contrarian
There is a Tea Party tonight at Community America Baseball Park in KCKS . Why don't you attend Doug747.

Cokely wanted stats. There they are. You want to ignore them with some smart a**,non-sensical comment no way germane to the issue. I will lend you my dictionary if you need to look up smart a**, non-sensical or germane. I doubt if you will hear those big words at a Tea Party.


That is a mere snapshot. Go back 20 years. The rules haven't changed. Just because "recently" there has been domination we should overreact and make a big change. Contrarian, what is your IQ? Just fill in the blanks _ _ . I left you plent of room!!


Will Cokeley
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Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168471 04/13/10 07:07 PM
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YOu liberals will think it is funny when these job creators you call "the evil rich" decide that you aren't worth it, and just shut their doors, ,and spend the rest of their lives in retirement, while you try to figure out how to rob them of more of the money they earned.

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: doug747] #168511 04/13/10 11:51 PM
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My IQ. Last time I was tested in the early 70s it was 146. What is yours.

Cutesy doesn't win you any points Cokely. Why not just answer the questions, address the facts and stats you asked for. And, your pussification statement ranks right along side your buddy MFE's statement about slapping the shit of somebody, or the kids look and act like pimps and prostitutes. Tasteless, tasteless, tasteless. Does not take much IQ to talk like that. Sounds like barnyard talk from Liberal.

Don't try to play word games with me. You lose everytime!1

Last edited by Contrarian; 04/13/10 11:53 PM.

Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168514 04/13/10 11:59 PM
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I've known lots of people like you that have a very high opinion of themselves. And if anyone wants to verify this high opinion of yourself, all they have to do is ask you. None of us knows what is good for us, you will save us from ourselves. We just got rid of a superintendent that had exactly your attitude.

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168516 04/14/10 12:06 AM
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Doug. Who are these job creators you hold in such high esteem. Are you talking about small business owners.

Do you know that small business owners comprise the largest group of millionaires/multi-millionaires in America. How do they do that. They pay minimum or low wages. They provide no or minimal employee benefits. The Federal government grants them special investment rules/higher percentages so they can sock more of their income into tax sheltered retirement plan than us average wage earning joes.

Don't kid yourself, small business people are not going to shutdown in mass. They have it too good. Same with doctors and health care. Doctors are not going to lay down their stethoscopes in mass in protest, nor will they stop seeing Medicare patients. Quit listening to Glenn Beck and Rush. Try doing you own thinking for a change. Glen and Rush are getting rich, no richer, off you.

Do you need saving from yourself???

Last edited by Contrarian; 04/14/10 12:09 AM.

Bill Mason Lansing
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: WillyM] #168526 04/14/10 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Contrarian

Don't kid yourself, small business people are not going to shutdown in mass. They have it too good. Same with doctors and health care. Doctors are not going to lay down their stethoscopes in mass in protest, nor will they stop seeing Medicare patients. Quit listening to Glenn Beck and Rush. Try doing you own thinking for a change. Glen and Rush are getting rich, no richer, off you.


Small business owners have it too good? Your 146 IQ is getting in the way of the facts. They take the most risk, which is foreign to most that depend on the government saving them.

In the US, small business (less than 500 employees) accounts for around HALF the GDP and more than HALF the employment. Regarding small business, the top job provider is those with less than 10 employees, and those with 10 or more but less than 20 employees comes in as the second, and those with 20 or more but less than 100 employees comes in as the third. Firms with less than 20 employees account for slightly more than 18% of the employment.

Of the 5,369,068 employer firms in 1995, 78.8 percent had fewer than 10 employees, and 99.7 percent had fewer than 500 employees.

As for doctors, there will be plenty of them. Just not good ones. The exodus of doctors and health care providers happened in the UK. They filled the vacuum by importing foreign doctors and granting them and their families citizenship. So, no problem, we’ll import doctors from Pakistan and Mexico to work for $50K a year.

This is what price controls do. They don’t control the price; they just shift the cost from monetary to non-monetary.


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: Chief Renegade] #168527 04/14/10 02:11 AM
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i'm sorry but from what i have read so far contrarian is an idiot that doesnt want private schools that give a better education to be around at all
along with pryer unless its behind closed doorsl,


john mason
Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: KC Sportsmom] #168535 04/14/10 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: KC Sportsmom
but will hurt small schools like St Thomas More Prep. Be Advised!


We will be fine. We will just have to get bigger. We have 225 students, 60 of which are international residents who play very little sports, so our 165 local, mostly Catholic kids are pretty much playing up a class anyways. If having us play 4A helps everyone sleep at night, so be it.


Bill DeWitt
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Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: RedStorm] #168536 04/14/10 09:21 AM
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Here is the link to the study by the KSHSAA Board.

http://www.kshsaa.org/Survey/PrivatePublicStudy.pdf

Conclusion
The Public-Private Study Committee recognizes and
agrees that inequities exist between member schools;
however, not all inequities fall between public and private
lines. The numerous factors referenced in this report help
distinguish one school from another and provide differing
opportunities for school communities to achieve and
grow. The Committee challenges each school to dedicate
its efforts in working to achieve the goals and principles
of a healthy interscholastic program.

The “Survey” that was quoted in the Wichita Eagle – has not been produced yet.
It was a stacked deck of administrators who want their proposal rammed through.
If law/legislation is changed in the Kansas - I want to see financial facts of expansion (such as impacts to individual schools), cost benefit study, methodology of the survey, what questions were asked, who conducted the survey and how the conclusions were drawn. Maybe an unbiased volunteer will do the study/survey at no cost and assisted by an attorney with legal advice – pro-bono.

A)
In 2006, the KSHSAA created a committee that studied the private-public issue. The main finding was that private schools "earn a disproportionate percentage of postseason final eight, final four and championship game opportunities when compared to public schools."

TO THIS I SAY DEVELOP YOUR YOUTH PROGRAMS – GET MORE PARENT VOLUNTEERS TO WORK WITH THE KIDS IN GRADE SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL, and HIGH SCHOOL - that is academically, athletically, and socially.

B)
"A lot of people thought we stopped short —'You need to go ahead and do something about it,' " KSHSAA executive director Gary Musselman said.

This is for the “a lot of people” who thought the 2006-2007 study stopped short.

TO THIS I SAY DEVELOP YOUR YOUTH PROGRAMS – GET MORE PARENT VOLUNTEERS TO WORK WITH THE KIDS IN GRADE SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL, and HIGH SCHOOL - that is academically, athletically, and socially

C)
'You need to go ahead and do something about it,' "

Do not make it easier for kids by adding classifications – challenge them to work harder, study harder, get the kids involved in community service projects, etc

TO THIS I SAY DEVELOP YOUR YOUTH PROGRAMS – GET MORE PARENT VOLUNTEERS TO WORK WITH THE KIDS IN GRADE SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL, and HIGH SCHOOL - that is academically, athletically, and socially

Conclusion
The Public-Private Study Committee recognizes and
agrees that inequities exist between member schools;
however, not all inequities fall between public and private
lines. The numerous factors referenced in this report help
distinguish one school from another and provide differing
opportunities for school communities to achieve and
grow. The Committee challenges each school to dedicate
its efforts in working to achieve the goals and principles
of a healthy interscholastic program.

Re: Would somebody please get Cokeley a sedative [Re: smokeycabin] #168545 04/14/10 11:18 AM
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KSHSAA holds up in audit

Web Link to article:
http://cjonline.com/sports/2009-07-11/kshsaa_holds_up_in_audit
Audit findings often don’t support concerns prompting study
BY RICK DEAN
Created July 11, 2009 at 7:06pm
Updated July 12, 2009 at 12:47am
Let’s put this into a perspective most taxpayers might understand.
Imagine you are facing an IRS audit. You are an honest person, yet you haven’t done everything perfectly. You await the government auditor with the anticipation common to root canals.
Anxious months later, you get his report. He disallows a single deduction; you owe a tax bill of $50. You aren’t overjoyed. Yet somehow you feel like celebrating.
That is a sense of what the Kansas State High School Activities Association, the governing body of the state’s athletic and scholastic activities programs, felt after its first appearance before the Legislative Division of Post Audit — the performance watchdog of Kansas government.
Fourteen months after a legislative committee authorized an audit in April 2008, the KSHSAA learned in the summary of the auditors’ June 25 report that “although the majority of (Association) members appear to be satisfied with most aspects of rules and regulations, a significant number are unhappy with some aspects.”
The resulting sound of silence was broken only by a quiet sigh of relief from the KSHSAA headquarters in west Topeka. Was that it? Is that the worst you found?
Gary Musselman, a KSHSAA executive for 22 years and its executive director for the past 13, was hardly floored to learn that well-intentioned people are uphappy with some aspects of Association policy.
When, after all, was anyone ever completely happy with every policy implemented by a statewide body representing 779 junior and senior high schools from Leavenworth to Liberal, St. Francis to St. Paul, and which governs activities as diverse as football and forensics, baseball and band?
“When your responsibility is to govern, there will always be concerns about, ‘Are you being fair? How do you make rules?’ ” Musselman said. “And in a state as diverse as Kansas, it’s hard to get everyone feeling the same about anything.”
Moreover, the data state auditors interpreted as “significant” dissatisfaction with Association policy read like poetry to an administrator more accustomed to having angry coaches and parents question his motivation, his judgment. Occasionally, even his parentage.
State auditors, for example, found it significant that one out of five coaches surveyed said the Association was “unresponsive” to the concerns of Kansas high school athletes.
Musselman found it more significant that 67 percent of coaches — long the most outspoken of KSHSAA critics — called the Association “responsive” to those concerns.
“I find the report interesting in that when it says 60 percent are in support and 40 percent have concerns, the 40 percent are what we talk about,” he said.
“I guess I should have spoken to that because I’ve had school superintendents say they read the audit and that (the Association) did a super job, but they were concerned about the somewhat negative stance.”
The 40 percent figure that generated headlines was the percentage of surveyed coaches who, according to the auditors, believed Kansas high school athletes “didn’t have enough opportunities to develop their athletic skills.” It is an age-old lament from coaches who see Association rules limiting games and practice opportunities as hindering the development of their players.
But their concern was blunted some by the auditors survey that ranked Kansas No. 2 among the seven Big 12 states in per capita production of Big 12 athletes in football and men’s and women’s basketball, the three showcase sports surveyed.
Texas, needless to say, produces more Big 12 football and basketball players than the six other states combined. But when population is factored in, Kansas produces five athletes per 100,000 residents, trailing only Nebraska.
“It’s a case where reality is not always in sync with perception,” Musselman said.
“There’s a perception elsewhere that we’re a bunch of small, backwater schools. Well, Jordy Nelson (a Kansas State All-American from tiny Riley County now in the NFL) did all right. So did Jackie Stiles (who made it to the WNBA from Claflin). You can go up and down a list (of small-school Kansas success stories).”
Numbers don’t lie
The effect of Association rules on the development of Kansas athletes was one of three major concerns legislators — responding to personal or constituent complaints — told the auditors to consider.
Others involved what legislators called a “cumbersome” governing structure that made the Association unresponsive to the wants of member schools; and revenue-sharing policies that, in the words of the pre-audit scope statement, “cause schools to lose money when they host (Association-sanctioned) postseason events.”
Again, figures compiled by the auditors in a survey of some 3,100 coaches, administrators, superintendents and school board presidents failed to support those contentions.
The auditors’ survey found only one in four respondents from the Association’s governing boards thought the board was too large. Only one in three thought it didn’t adequately represent schools of all sizes. Some survey respondents also said small schools (classes 1 through 3A) were under-represented.
In breaking down the Association’s 78-member Board of Directors, auditors found one Board member for every eight small schools, compared to one for every four large schools (classes 4 through 6A). Yet in analyzing student representation, small schools had one board member for every 759 students compared to one for every 2,619 students in classes 4 through 6A.
Kansas’ big-vs.-small rift, as prominent in the Statehouse as it is in the KSHSAA, shifted in 1992 when the Association sought legislative permission to expand its then 60-member Board of Directors, which included one representative from each league regardless of school size.
Today, leagues with combined enrollments of more than 4,000 students have a second representative — who must be a woman or from a minority population — on the 78-member board. Leagues with combined enrollments of 8,000 can get a third representative.
The change has tipped the big-small balance, Musselman said, but it came about through a democratic process.
“Prior to 1992, the over-simplified, seat-of-the-pants criticism was that the small schools ran the organization,” he said. “Now those small schools might say a shift in power has finally happened, that we can’t control our destiny because we’ll be outvoted by this larger block.
“But in 21 years here I haven’t seen that many issues break down to large school vs. small school. The issue about summer coaching may have come as close to that as anything.”
Fiscal restraint
The legislative concern about schools losing money when hosting KSHSAA-sponsored postseason events also didn’t stand up to auditing scrutiny.
Auditors did note the KSHSAA tends to keep a higher percentage of postseason gate receipts — 70 percent, a revenue stream that provides almost 90 percent of the Asssociation’s nearly $4 million operating budget — than do the other six Big 12 states surveyed. Two of three administrators surveyed thought they should retain a higher percentage for postseason events they host.
But auditors also noted the Association — which pays for officials, trophies and liability insurance at all postseason events — makes up the difference when a host school’s expenses are greater than its 30 percent take.
The auditors also reported the Association spends a larger share of operating revenue on its staff than does any other comparison state. Moreover, the KSHSAA maintains a $5.5 million cash reserve, more than any other state surveyed.
Nearly 40 percent of the Association’s budget goes to staff compensation.
Musselman said staff salaries, determined by the Association’s Executive Board, reflect a low turnover rate and resulting high service time among his top administrators.
“Stability is an indication of people finding meaning in their work, and you tend to reward that,” he said. “They know what they’re doing, and you want to retain those folks.”
Solid fiscal management, Musselman added, helped the KSHSAA build its large cash reserves. The Association exercised the option to pay off the 15-year bonds on its new $3.2 million headquarters in only five years, thus saving some $900,000 in budgeted interest payments.
The Association now plans to return some of that cushion to its member schools in tight budgetary times.
In the 2009-10 school year, membership dues — $400 annually for high schools and $125 for junior highs — will be cut in half. The KSHSAA also will pay 16 percent of the annual catastrophic insurance premium paid for every Kansas student who participates in a sport.
The Association in the past two years also made $10,000 contributions to help restore the activity programs at tornado-ravished Greensburg and Chapman.
“In these financial times, we’ll look at what can we do to help our member schools,” Musselman said. “If we can find creative ways to help schools cover costs, we’re going to look into it.”
The legislative auditors offered no recommendations for KSHSAA improvements, other than to use the data it compiled as a guideline for future considerations of rule or policy revisions.
It was the kind of inconclusive conclusion Musselman had been hoping to hear.
“Nothing in (the report) makes me ashamed,” he said. “We work hard to do right by our schools, because if we don’t, they’ll let us know. After all, we work for them.”

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