And that's always the rub...the officials must know the rules and are responsible for their enforcement and interpretation. The coaches, parents, and fans, who may or may not know either the letter or the spirit of the rules, have the luxury of second guessing every close call after the fact, sometimes with the benefit of a video and slow motion.And there is nothing wrong with discussing close calls. That is exactly what the NFHS federation web site for officials is all about. The easy calls don't get much discussion.

I again encourage anyone who is interested in how other officials from other states view this situation to visit the national federation's web-site were this video is posted. You can agree or disagree with those officials, as you can agree or disagree with our Kansas officials, but so far every one of those officials have said this was a slam and most have indicated it wasn't even close. For them, this is an "easy" call and not worth much discussion.So while you can believe officials in other state's might call it differently, so far I haven't found one that says so.

OK, might as well put my head in the lion's mouth here...lol

First, not actually being there, I honestly don't know if I'd have called it a slam or not. What I will say that there were three things in about a five-second sequence on the tape that might have LED me to call it. One was back mule-kick Ryne did to pull the kid up; when you do a high-amp move, people, including the official, notice it. Two was the fact that at about 1:02 on the tape, as Ryne applied the turk, all four feet left the mat (Ryne's and his opponents)and finally, it appeared as if there might have been "downward force" to the mat. With those three factors, I can see why it was called. I'm not saying it was right, I'm saying I can see why it was called. While I can't think of the official's name, he looked familiar, and as I recall, he is good.

Second, why is this an issue? The other kid hopped right up and went right back to his position, and about 20 seconds later he got pinned with a nifty cradle -- personally I prefer extended arms, but that's just me. He didn't puss-out, claim a false injury and take the cheap win.

I like the whole "pussification" thing. Sarah Palin makes up words alot and I think she's very funny. The thing is that wrestling is not a sport of brutality; it is a sport of balance, position, technique and heart. My father was an official in Iowa for 36 years. He did 20 State meets, six Division II NCAA tournaments, the Big Tens, and dozens of Iowa and Northern Iowa meets over the years and is in the IHSAA Hall of Fame. He always preached one thing to me: if you're going to be wrong, be wrong on the side of safety. That's what it should be about.

Anyway, I await the responses and GO CHIEFS!!!!

Cheif Are you sure about the halfs, and singles.. That is too advanced for some as well. In cases like this, maybe the kid should of just ask the the opponent to roll over.

Horrible Call.

"The thing is that wrestling is not a sport of brutality; it is a sport of balance, position, technique and heart."

Good point...

And sportsmanship....in high school sports, sportsmanship is emphasized.

Will's constant refrain that the sport, schools, and society are becoming softer or less manly or however you want to characterize it is absolutely correct. There are so many examples of that trend that it can't be denied. And that's exactly why each year new rules are being adopted that makes wrestling less of a "combat" sport. Football, too. Things that were perfectly legal a few years ago are now penalized. Rail against it if you will, but that's the way our society is trending.

Rford,

Yes, sportsmanship. Up here in Iowa, we get the whole Tom Brands-pychobabble constantly. "It's about PAIN! It's about DOMINATION!"

You can win, you can beat someone badly, and not have it come off like a cage match. Somewhere that got lost.

Bob, Bob, Bob. Officials DON'T always know the rules better than the coaches and parents. Absent of evaulations there is no measuring of the performance of officials except by a fellow official who dishes out assignments. Since that official is held to the officials code of silence when it comes to being critical then there is NO accountability. Officials, for the most part, will NOT object to a call, they will either agree or take the vow of silence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kU0L9ewdVQ

The long awaited clip of the same move... 2010 4A Regional Semis. Look at the 1:28 to 1:30 part of the match. In this instance a proper non call was made as it is not a slam in either instance.

I have a clip from Gardner and Iowa I will post of possible slam situations and see how you feel about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H9pqoSW64w

Go to the 3 minute mark and watch the lift and return. I am not going to say it was or wasn't but I will say that Ryne learned to quit standing around waiting for a stall call. That will get you tossed on your head. Get your hips out and fight for position. This match was in a dual against Davenport West at the Iowa City West Lepic Duals.

This was not a slam, the wrestler in controll put his hand down to stop his weight from crushing the bottom man. Its two differnt finishes.

While that is not really the rule I won't disagree however that being said, in each of these two additional sequences the defensive wrestler hit the mat WAY harder than Ryne's Mill Valley opponent and I would lean towards saying "unnecessary force" would be a force that was more extreme, not less extreme. It doesn't matter who hits the mat first or if it is under control. The rule says "RULE 7, SEC. 1, ART. 1: A slam is lifting and returning an opponent to the mat with unnecessary force. This infraction may be committed by a contestant in either the top or bottom position on the mat, as well as during a takedown. A slam shall be called without hesitation." By the way, I am really not sure which match you are referring to Kevin. I would like to stress that the rule does NOT say you can't use FORCE, it says you cannot use UNNECESSARY FORCE. I would not have called any of them slams. All good, hard wrestling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yhNRqtroag

You make the call. 12-14 seconds into the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ygzdj0MYQ

How about this one? Just for fun. It was 3 points during the real wrestling season.

Sorry Will i was referring to the 1 that started this whole thing and the 1 you posted at 11:55 today, same move differnt finish.

Just get over it Will, the call was made and life goes on. If he doesn't want to put himself in that situation again, use a different finish. It's that simple.

The obvious point made is one person's judgement is not the same as another's. That is why it is called a slam by one official, not called a slam by another one, etc... The one big thing though against YOUR judgement is the NFHS forum of officials unamimously said it was a slam...

I also see you're a registered official Will, do you berate your fellow co-workers outside the wrestling world like you do here?

The Gardner Finals was a slam imo. Awful close to an unsportsmanlike call after the pin. We've done less and been hit before.
The Iowa dual looked clean I thought.

The freestyle match, I'd seen before. Pretty! Would have passed in a collegiate style match imo.

i was trying to recruit some new officials and am having some issues. parents on the ks kids forum believe that young officials suck, people on the high school forum think older officials suck. either way i hope that i don't fit in to any of those categories, young, old,or sucky. but i wanted to clarify before i talk these guys to swear in, do we take the vow of silence before or after we wear robes and ride the goat?

1st one is a slam, 2nd is not

The subsequent videos have almost nothing in common with the first video. The only similarity between the first video and subsequent videos is that wrestlers were returned to the mat with some force.

The only video that shows unnecessary force is the one in the first post.

Any time a wrestler who has lifted an opponent leaves his feet to accelerate the downward force with which his opponent hits the mat while simultaneously positioning himself to drive his shoulder into the chest of his opponent upon impact - I'm calling a slam. I'll do so without hesitation. The additional force and subsequent intensified impact were simply unnecessary.

You can call me terrible. You can accuse me of furthering the pussification of America. You can say whatever you want.

It's not going to bother me at all.

InsideTheStripes
I wish I could get commission for all of the guys who make their first post ever responding to one my posts and usually disagreeing. I don't think I will be calling you anything but "Who the heck are you?" since you have failed to place your name at the bottom of your skewed view. The initial video and the 2nd link are the exact same move with the exception that the 2nd link the defensive wrestler was elevated to an even greater height before being returned to the mat with even greater force and impact than the first.

Donkeywrestler, I am not sure what I am to get over. I am posting several opportunities for everyone to view possible slam situations and form their opinion just as I have voiced mine. In addition, I do NOT consider other registered officials as "fellow employees" so I am not sure what my conduct at my place of employment has to do with this post or any other for that matter. If you don't like reading or looking at my posts please refrain from doing so. I am not changing the way I conduct myself on here, especiallly for you.

I'm not exactly sure the State Freestyle & Greco Director should be publicly berating officials on here either, that I do have a major issue with.

I would think our directors would support those supporting our sport instead of berating them and telling them how it should be done.