Things to consider...

First, Mike is right in regards to the voting of adding 6 and under. Time and time again, when brought to the floor at the state body, the state as a whole has voted it down.

Numbers can be deceiving. On the surface, it would appear that overwhelmingly 6 and under dominates our practice rooms, but we know this is not the case. In clubs I have coached, the younger kids come in early in the year and by the end of January, are tired of wrestling. Instead of burning their son/daughter out, the parents opt to end the season early.

A better indication of adding 6 and under would be the tourney in Ottawa. How many kids are at that tourney each year? Is it as high as those with cards? Just a question to ponder.

As for 16 and under, they have joined the ranks with the sole purpose of trying for a state title - sort of. With the addition of the national tourney in Nebraska, our elite are skipping the state tourney and heading to the Nebraska. Makes sense for them and I agree.

Second, Kanwrman makes a valid point, if all was perfect in the wrestling community. Why not add wrestling freestyle in March for the 16 and unders and get the national teams set early? Two problems - 1. I'm guessing he/she is referring to the dual teams, which are selected (sore sport with me) and are not wrestled off for. As for qualifying for Fargo, those tourneys are held in March/April/May in regards to regional qualifiers for Juniors. I won't touch on Cadets because their regional qualifier is in June. 2. In the metros, there is little problem in finding a club that has a freestyle technician/coach. It is difficult to find in Western Kansas. The intent by such modification would be to prepare Kansas Kids for the national level for such an age group. Because KSHSAA in their infinite wisdom see folk/free/greco as one in the same, our kids are left to practice with someone other than their high school coach. Remember, the Olympic styles has really gotten "hot" in Kansas in the past 10 years. Most coaches have not either wrestled or competed in these styles and they are at a loss. This is not a slam on them, but an admission that our kids coaches are ill prepared for the Olympic styles.

I would agree with Ned on the issue. The state tourney will be up for bid again and I would suggest to anyone that is working on bringing the tourney to somewhere other than Topeka to build two formats - one the same as we've always done and the second with the modifications sought by the 6 and under contengency.

When I was in federation, 16 and under was the hot commodity. This was our chance to see a sort of grand state if you will. That was long ago and with the Nebraska tourney, that illustriousness as diminished. I would suggest to all involved in putting together a proposal to not take out the 16 and unders, but modify it to the high school weight classes, the same ones that are used in Fargo by the way. This would drastically shrink the number of weights and would at the same time free up some time/space for the 6 and unders.

Gibby, just to expand on that, many 16 & Unders who plan to wrestle in Nebraska are also wrestling kids to keep in shape until then, see other 16&Us from different high school classes, etc. Looking at the sub-district results, you will see quite a few names that you will also see in Lincoln.

Richard I need some help.

If we vote on weight changes at the next State meeting will they take effect that year (05-06) or the next,(06-07).

Ned

Cokely,

They had 16 under in the 80's , because I wrestled in them. Actually, I didn't make it to state in high school. I wrestled a kid in Districts who won a high school state championship and I beat him. Then I didn't even place at kids state.

They didn't have them in 1980, which would have been the last year I would have been able to wrestle 16 and under. In the 70's when Kids state was held in Wichita and Hays they did not have 16 and under.

I didn't follow kids wrestling in Kansas in the 80's very much. I do recall it still being held in Hays in the late 80's, is that correct?

State was in Salina. Nice short drive from Abilene.

We were talking at practice tonight and thought it would be really cool if they had 16 & under state the weekend after high school state. Open invitation, high school weights only, maybe add one lower than 103. Wrestlers could maintain their weight for one more weekend. I think it would be an awesome event with lots of 32 man brackets completely full. It would truly be like a mini grand state. Comments...

I think there would be a good turn out. It would take a few years to build it up. Would it be a USA sanctioned tournament? I sure like Salina as a location.

Ned,

Have you heard any more talk regarding this?

Jeff

I think the issue of amount of kids is not a valid reason to try to justify one age group over the other. The reason the numbers go down the older the kids get is because the compition level increases, and the wrestlers start to "weed" themselves out. The wrestlers who have the most sucess stay out and the kids who don't drop out. If you watch the older kids take state for instance look how close the matches get. I also think there is to much pressure that would be applied by some parents on 5-6 year old kids it can be to much even for the 7-8 year olds. The parents that are at the state meeting every year pushing to add 6&U and take out 16&U are some of the parents I'm talking about. Example earlier this year some parents were asking for advice on moving their 6 year old up for subs, and the response of so many parents was yes I'm doing it to my kid. I responded on this issue it needed to be the kids decision and so many said they were moving their kid up without really asking their kid for their opinion. I have been around the wrestling scene for over 20 years, and the amount of parent driving their kids is growing at an alarming rate, and I think some parents need to remember this is for the kids to have fun. The whole topic on 6&U is the parents want their kids at the state tournemant why not wrestle the six and unders in exhibition hall where the kids way in, and I think it should be a tournemant open to all 6&U kids without having to wrestle through to rounds of the playoffs. This would take all the pressure off of the kids and give all the parents the bracket they want at state and all would be happy without removing kids from the 16&U who have wrestled for many years in the Kansas Wrestling Club. I thank you for your time, and we will see you in Iowa at nationals.

I heard through the grapevine high school is talking about removing 103 and adding a class between 215 and 275 has anyone else heard this?

NFSHA Has No Plans To Reduce Number of Weight Classes!

Weight a Minute: NFSHA Has No Plans To Reduce Number of Weight Classes

3/15/2005 3:07:00 PM

Many rumors have circulated across the country that the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFSHA) was going to reduce the number of weight classes in high school wrestling from 14 to 12 starting next year.

But that couldn’t be further from the truth, says Jerry Diehl, editor of the NFSHA rules book and a member of the wrestling rules committee.

“There are not going to be any changes, if any, for at least two years,” Diehl told The Wrestling Mall Tuesday.

Much of the speculation that this was going to take place next season stemmed from a survey the NFSHA sent to the state coaches associations. One of the questions in the survey brought up the topic of what coaches thought about reducing the number of weight classes.

“Those who believed that it will happen next year, that was just an assumption on their part,” said Diehl. “There has never been anything discussed formally by our committee that would indicate we would do that next year.”

Diehl added that the wrestling rules committee will meet to discuss the pluses and minuses of reducing weight classes, or keeping them the same, in April. From that point though, Diehl said it will still be two more years before any changes are made, if any.

“We’re just starting to look at the feedback,” he said. “There’s nothing more to it.”

- Matt Krumrie

Richard,

Did you have an answer to Neds question?

"Richard I need some help.

If we vote on weight changes at the next State meeting will they take effect that year (05-06) or the next,(06-07).

Ned"


Jeff

A vote to change weights would take effect for the current year (05-06).

Mike Juby

Could a motion to change to USAW weights and age cuttoff happen for next year? What is the process for this to happen. I understand this will probably be bad for my son but it really needs to happen to let those 6 and unders wrestle at State.

this was the example on an earlier post and one that probably needs to happen
6-U 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, HWT. ( modify to add 35)
8-U 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 87, 95, 103, 112, 120, HWT. ( modify to add 40, 45 )
10-U 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, HWT. ( modify to add 50, 55 )
12-U 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 145, 165, 185, 205, 225, HWT. ( modify to add 60, 65 )
14-U 84, 91, 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, HWT. ( modify to add 70, 77 )
16-U 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, HWT. ( modify to add 245 )

All proposed changes to the rules must be given to Greg Grater, in writing, by certified mail post dated no later than July 31.

The only rules changes which do not take effect immediately are those which directly impact the actions of the mat official during competition. Since age & weight changes do not fall in this category, any changes would become effective as soon as passed by a two-thirds vote at the state body meeting, provided that at least fifty-five percent (55%) of all clubs are present at the meeting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffroberts:
[QB] Mike Juby

"Could a motion to change to USAW weights and age cuttoff happen for next year? What is the process for this to happen. I understand this will probably be bad for my son but it really needs to happen to let those 6 and unders wrestle at State."

What does the age cutoff have to do with 6U at state?

We probably should go with the USAW (weights and ages) and have the least amount of differences. Then our kids would be the same, no age or weight differences when they went to wrestle nationally. This will be pretty detrimental to my son as he places because he is one of the light weights and isn't that athletic. But my opinion is we should try to match up with the rest of the USAW.

What is the address for Mr. Grater? Do these proposals need to be in a particular form or motion?