Chief,
I gave you direct scripture telling you why we should not have a public prayer meeting on the mats at regionals, why no response?

Now this is discussion! Let me clear you up on what the bible says about corporate prayer. In fact, when the church is established in the book of Acts, the people simply gather every single day for fellowship, prayer, the breaking of bread and the instruction in the Apostles’ doctrine. And they gather everywhere. Yes, they gather in the temple and they gather in homes. And they gather wherever they meet because worship is decentralized in the establishment of the New Covenant. Every place becomes a sanctuary. Every place becomes a place of worship. Read the book of Acts and then decide what scripture says about public prayer.

Additional info for you rassler...

Matthew 18:19 - 20, "Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens. For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Acts 2:1 - 2 we read a very famous account of corporate prayer and its powerful result, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."

Acts 4:24 - 32 gives another powerful account of how effective corporate prayer is.

Ephesians 6:18:
"Pray at all times - on every occasion, in every season - in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty ..."

I have read the book of acts and what you describe is true, the early christians gathered wherever they could to pray and worship. But that is not what is happening here.

Nothing could be clearer than the following verses:

Matthew 6:5 - 7

5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Jesus says you must definitely not pray as the hypocrites pray.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Here Jesus says when thou prayest, you must pray this way:
(1) enter into thy closet.
(2) shut the door.
(3) pray to thy Father which is in secret.
(4) use not vain repetitions.

(Prayer must be in private, not in front of other people.
Do not repeat things over and over again in prayer)
An attribute of a true Christian is: He only prays in private, never in public

Rassler,

The web site that you are cut and pasting from is called religioustolerance.org. It is primarily an atheist web site.

It doesn't matter what web site I found my information from, I originally learned this passage at the good old southern baptist church, I did not have a bible with me so I googled this verse and that is what I came up with. It still goes against what you are advocating, Jesus did not want his followers praying on the street corners like the hypocrites, a true follower of jesus prays in private because they don't need anyone to see or hear them pray, they don't need to put on a show at a public event, all they need is a private place to pray to their god just as the bible teaches.

Rassler,

Myself and 4 others had a Radio Show bible study on KMBZ for 10 years. Many times we addressed that passage. Christ is dealing with a particular practice of the Pharisees. They made a big show of praying so that everyone would know just how spiritual they were. They were proud and in their prayers so that others would see them. That is, they took what should have been their private prayer life and made a public show of it so that others would be amazed at their spirituality. This is like those today to who continually brag on how much time they spend in prayer. Christ was teaching us that our personal prayer life is not to be displayed in public. He was not teaching that there was never an occasion for public prayer.

Public prayer is common in the Old Testament. Solomon prayed at the dedication of the temple (1Kings 8:22-23) and Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven: and he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

Elijah prayed publicly on Mt. Carmel (1Kings 17:36-37)

Ezra prayed before "a very great congregation of men and women and children" (Ezra 10:1) Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.

We continue to see public prayer practiced in the New Testament even after the teaching of Matthew 6:6.

Christ prayed publicly before He raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:41-42) "Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."

Paul kneeled and prayed with the Ephesian elders before he left them (Acts 20:36) "And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all."

And although we receive few clear statements about the order of worship in the early churches, an important piece of information is found in 1 Corinthians 14:15-16.

1Corinthians 14:15-16. "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

If you carefully read this passage, you will see that Paul stresses the importance of praying with understanding so that those who occupy the room of the unlearned can say Amen at the giving of thanks. This passage makes sense only in the context of public prayer. If no one is listening, then how could anyone say Amen? Other statements hint at the presence of public prayer in the early churches, but this one clearly shows that it was practiced.

One thing that might help you is to understand that the purposes of public prayer are a bit different from those of private prayer. In private prayer, we pour our heart out to God and tell Him all. We do not need to be concerned about sentence structure or form in any way. Just talk to God. However, in public prayer, we are leading, as we speak of someone "leading in prayer" we are leading others to look on God. We are directing the attention of others to the Lord and helping them rely on Him at this time.

Thats fine but I don't think a public event is the place to hold a prayer meeting in the middle of the mat. If you want a prayer meeting fine announce that everyone interested in a prayer meet in a corner of the gym and have at it. Butr it does not need to be in the middle of the gym in front of all people from different faiths, that is rude and intolerant not everyone believs what you believe, and it is wrong to stoip the show at regionals to put on a show and force everyone to sit through your prayer to your god it is wrong.

Gee...all those years of my daddy being a Baptist preacher and leading public prayers, and me now going to a Baptist church and have public, corporate prayers & (gasp) I included myself in the "public display of praying with the wrestlers" in a previous Regional, and if someone is willing to lead it @ the 4A Maize South Regional Friday, I'll join in with the wrestlers again!!!

Guess I'm going to hell then, since I pray in public, huh?

It happened last year and nothing was stopped. It was on a mat but not in the center. It was a small group at our regional of about 25 wrestlers. We prayed for an injury free day for ALL wrestlers. Not one person showed disapproval. We were not challenging other religions, we were just practicing ours.

I am excited about all the talk about prayer! Amazing




Maybe if more students/athletes prayed before each event- thanked God for the ability to participate in this great sport, asking that their actions on and off the mat would give God glory, and that all would be protected from injury.....

....there would be fewer examples of all of the other stuff that happens at wrestling tournaments?


I told my daughter about this conversation: Lizzy said, "Wow two of my favorite things- Prayer and wrestling"

so what your trying to say is that if you don't pray to your god (the Christan god im assuming) is your son/yourself is going to be injured at the tournament while wrestling?

So to stop injuries we must pray to god and hope he doesn't smite us for our insolence?

Well if prayer could do all that and protect you that well why do we pay for insurance?

I completely agree with rassler. The mats before the tournament are not the time or place to have a prayer meeting.

But if you must have a prayer meeting you should cover all religions that may be at the tournament.

So lets just start all regional tournaments an hour late so the Christans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Scientologists, Rastafarian's, and who ever else would like to pray to their god get five min each per religion so that they can have a showcase for their god too.

Unless of course some religion were opt out of this privilege because the teachings in their scriptures taught them to be humble....

P.S. Jesus taught us to be humble. Remember "The meek shall inherit the Earth"?

Flubber? That's what you chose for your first post? Wow. This prayer will not hold up anything. It will be done before the scheduled start time. MY GOD, as rassler called Him, is not a vengeful God. No one is going to get hurt because they didn't pray. We got your back. We will pray for everybody, so don't worry. I am not angry about you not praying. Why are you so upset about freeminded people praying?

Ok if you do not know who I am, I am one of the 4 co-creators of Wrestlers 4 Christ, along with my dad Harry, Doug V and obviously Micheal.

In response to everything posted before the last comment (flubber): Honestly, this group was created for those who wanted to say a little, short pre-match prayer. We decided to hold it in the center of the mat and the day we started, we have not had one single problem with it. I know it may be a coincidence, but 2 years ago at Regionals when we started this thing, there were zero injuries through our Regional and through the 321a State Tournament. Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems pretty powerful to me. I'm not trying to make a believer out of any of you by stating that, but look at me with a straight face and tell me that isn't one of the coolest things you've ever heard of in sports. 1000's of matches and not one single injury?

This is a student-athlete led prayer. It does not push someone to go out and pray for something they may not believe in.

Last thing and I'll let ya guys keep debatin about it. While I spoke the prayer at most, if not every meet we competed in, the entire gym, no matter what the people were doing and no matter what was on there mind, those people/wrestlers/officials/ and even the stands filled with parents would get silent and you could hear either my voice or micheals throughout the entire gym. Even if you don't agree with it, you got to admit it is a very powerful and very very cool event to spectate and take part of.

Thanks guys and Hope soon everyone can just appreciate what we are doing.

Everyone good luck this weekend and God Bless

Brett LaMar

This is awesome! We think this is a wonderful idea for the group prayer before Regionals start! To God be the glory! Count our family in in support of this!

Blaine & Lori Salmans

And also thanks Chief for the good words of wisdom and all the supporters out there

Firehawk,

You do have a vengeful god

Deuteronomy 32:35

35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste

Romans 12:19

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 10:30

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people

Please read your bible before making false statements on here and trying to pass them off as fact

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some people are still trying to put down HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLERS who believe strongly in their faith. Rassler, no one is forcing you to take part in it. No one trying to convert you. No one is making a public scene and flaunting their religion. They are doing it because they believe it helps keep kids safe, not because they think they are better than anyone else. Flubber, you took what chief and back in the day said and completely twisted it and tried to make what Wrestlers for Christ is doing seem bad. Again this was started by HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLERS, instead of trying to put them down and scare them away (which will never happen no matter what you say about them or what they do) why don't you either leave them alone or tell them they have a lot of courage to go out and pray in front of an entire crowd of people because if you haven't ever done it before its not as easy as it looks.

rassler, all i know is that it's good that we are in America. or else some radical dictator would order you be shot in the head in front of an entire city. keep that in mind when you, continue to have these discussions. it is your right to do as you see fit. thank God. good day.