Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: WillyM]
#182619
02/17/11 02:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3
broke152
Junior Member
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Junior Member
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Posts: 3 |
well were not asking everyone to participate
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: WillyM]
#182620
02/17/11 02:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 273
Quagmire
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Coercive - |kōˈərsiv| adjective relating to or using force or threats.
Explain how you find that students are using force or threats? I just want your opinion that is all.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: flubber]
#182621
02/17/11 02:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3
Scrum Daddy G
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So since you guys can pray in a large group in the middle of the mats, would it be acceptable for me to wear a black cloak, chant in latin, and play with my ouija board right next to you guys? Or would that be frowned upon?
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182622
02/17/11 02:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 25
flubber
Junior Member
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Coerce- 1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.
2.to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.
3.to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual
sorry but I thought it objective to put all the definitions on the post
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182623
02/17/11 02:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 541
LancerLou
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Wikipedia (now widely accepted as an accurate reference) estimates there are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations. To quote Wikipedia:
"Between denominations, theologians, and comparative religionists there are considerable disagreements about which groups can be properly called Christian, disagreements arising primarily from doctrinal differences between groups."
Please consider that the views expressed by some of the Christians on this topic are NOT representative of the views held by ALL Christians.
Lou Ann Baker
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: gymmom]
#182624
02/17/11 02:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 273
Quagmire
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"In Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, the Supreme Court nicely summed up the difficulty with school sponsored religion:
School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community"
This may be why kshaa or the schools were never asked. It wouldn't be approved and they knew this.
a) its not school sponsored b) Doug V. just posted KSHAA's approval.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: LancerLou]
#182626
02/17/11 02:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 25
flubber
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Thank you Lou Ann.
You make a very good point and I respect that the views expressed here do not represent all Christans.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: flubber]
#182627
02/17/11 02:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 273
Quagmire
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flubber, thanks but still doesn't answer my question.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182629
02/17/11 02:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
willie424
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Hmmmmmmm all that arguing for nothing i thought we were told it was not supported by Mr. Bowden from Contrarian guess that was some false information.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182630
02/17/11 02:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 25
flubber
Junior Member
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Posts: 25 |
Are the wrestlers who are doing this not exploiting through fear and or anxiety?
Someone may feel pressured to participate in this because of the beliefs of other people, such as friends, coaches, and parents.
Doing this is wrong and yes it is coercive.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182631
02/17/11 02:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3
Scrum Daddy G
Junior Member
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You just have to trust people when they say they were forced or threatened. Because everyone is honest and you can trust everyone. There ya go Quags
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: RichardDSalyer]
#182632
02/17/11 02:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
gymmom
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"The Court also emphasized in Weisman and Santa Fe that attendance at major school events like graduation or football games should not be considered "voluntary" even if authorities officially designate it as such. Weekly football games and high school graduation are central parts of student life and students should be able to attend these events without fear of religious coercion."
How is a wrestling tournament different than football games?
"Moreover, in both Santa Fe v. Doe and Lee v. Weisman, the Supreme Court expressed particular concern that students could be coerced, through pressure from their peers and others, into praying during school events such as football games and graduation ceremonies. This danger exists regardless of whether it is a member of the clergy or a student who offers the prayer. "
These are supreme court rulings.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182633
02/17/11 02:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
racer12x
Junior Member
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 18 |
wow, what a topic. funny that some of the critics can't even post there names. i am proud to be catholic, i don't preach to others just try to lead by example. if someone wants to find me at regionals, i will be on the mat praying with all the others before the wrestling starts.
wvielhauer@att.net 913-638-5410
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182634
02/17/11 02:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
gymmom
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Posts: 77 |
If KSHAA approved this, then they may be setting themselves up for a lawsuit. Slippery slope they may be on.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: gymmom]
#182635
02/17/11 02:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 273
Quagmire
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Flubber,
If a wrestler is going up to someone and saying "hey go to the prayer meeting or else!" Then yes it is Coercive. If a wrestler says "hey if anyone wants to come pray for the safety of all of our athletes you are more than welcome too!" then in no way shape or form is it coercive.
By the way, the second example I used is exactly what Wrestlers for Christ is doing. I have witnessed it.
Gymmom, people have copied and pasted from your website you provided evidence that it is constitutional. I hope you are at a regional where the prayer takes place you that you can see how this goes about. Hopefully you won't mind it anymore.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: flubber]
#182637
02/17/11 02:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 155
rassler
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 155 |
hey maybe we can get Ted Haggard to lead the prayer via a video feed.
Last edited by rassler; 02/17/11 02:58 AM.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182638
02/17/11 02:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
willie424
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All of you who are opposed to teenagers leading and expressing ther faith should be ashamed you should applaud these young men for what they have done not bash them it is truly sad how society treats young men who are only trying to express there feelings of prayer, but not upon others. Should be ashamed comign from Jack Vielhauer.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182639
02/17/11 02:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 273
Quagmire
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KSHAA isn't sponsoring it, just giving approval. I'm pretty sure they would check their rights before approving it.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: Quagmire]
#182640
02/17/11 03:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 25
flubber
Junior Member
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You must of forgotten the anxious part Quags.
If a wrestler were to choose not to go but felt compelled too because the religious views of your friends, family, or coaches makes that wrestler feel left out or anxious then it is coercive.
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals
[Re: flubber]
#182641
02/17/11 03:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 25
flubber
Junior Member
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And yes I would accept a prayer by Mr. Haggard.
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