Let me start by saying I used to like freestyle and greco more than folkstyle. I come from one of the states that is all we wrestled until middle school (that was when we start folkstyle).

Having said that, I find freestyle very frustrating with the rules as they are today. It is very hard to coach younger kids and get them fired up about it because it is too easy for kids to lose by trying offensive takedowns. If a kids doesn't finish his/her shots quickly and in great form the defensive wrestler can score very easy. This discourages our younger kids from staying with freestyle. The argument is that freestyle causes them to learn how to finish better and faster...true. However, when you are talking about younger kids they don't see that...they see baseball.

Secondly, we are our own worst enemy. Too many folks see wrestling as an individual sport when it is actually a great team sport. Look at the participation we have for the middle school and elementary school duals. Cost wise you get the biggest bang for your buck at these tournies. This builds experience and comraderie. Same is true for the freestyle/greco dual series. I think if we offered some kind of dual meets we could grow interest and keep if even during freestyle/greco.

Lastly, folkstyle pays more than freestyle or greco. The most kids can realistic hope to get out of wrestling is some money for college. Colleges wrestle folkstyle and there is currently a huge gap between folkstyle and freestyle. I see Will's point but USAW needs to do things like the NHSCA does then. They need to get the colleges to set up booths and do the extra stuff like the NHSCA tourney does. That would help the kids. Have a series of "show case" tournaments that feature different colleges at these tournaments. They do this in soccer all the time.

I

response to shawnbudke. no pun intended.

1st- rules are rules. These rules currently have been in effect for quite some time now and are still representative of the previous.


2ND- WHAT DO YOU THINK CADET AND JUNIOR DUALS ARE? Kansas competes in these events every year. These are individual and team growing experiences. I also recall another dual tournament in Colorado set up and represented by many great wrestlers in the state.

3rd- Folkstyle may pay for college (partial for most) but if you look at the guys from Kansas that were ever worth a crap in college. I would say 95% of them seemed to have competed in Freestyle/Greco competition while in high school. Fargo is crawling with college coaches.

Lazyman,

I don't disagree with anything you said. I guess I didn't clarify on the duals thing....let me try....

1. We are trying to figure out how to improve our standings at Fargo. I my opinion that starts with improving our number of kids that compete in freestyle and greco. My observation is that the kids really enjoy the duals. Yes we do Schoolboy, Cadet, Junior duals. My point is that maybe if we could develop some kind of program that does more dual type tournaments (not necessarily all national stuff) then maybe kids would do more freestyle and greco in the off season. The trip to Colorado is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

2. As for your third point...I understand about Fargo and the coaches. That comment was more directed to Will's comment about the NHSCA event vice USAW folkstyle Nationals. However, I do think that if other events created an environment where colleges could set up booths and kids could go around and meet the coaches plus get info on the schools then you may attract additional kids.

Now as for the rules are rules....yes they are however, I would debate that they have been in effect for quite some time. The only thing consistent with the rules established for international wrestling is that the constantly change. The push out rule only came into effect in the past 3-5 years (can't remember exactly), the infamous ball grab is fairly new but oh that's right....it changed in just the past year also.

Are all these changes bad...no. The main point is that there seems to be a growing separation between freestyle and folkstyle. Wrestling freestyle doesn't necessarily equate to additional success in folkstyle as much these days at it used to. That was my only point on that.

From a parent’s perspective, who does not coach, I just drive to practice, here are my thoughts on Coach Church's question:

* First, we need to have our kids develop the proper mindset or mental discipline to succeed at a tournament like Fargo. We do this by increasing our participation in School Boy/Cadet/Jr. duals – nothing makes a kid mentally stronger than a 4 or 5 day dual situation where they get a number of matches. This is also accomplished in practice – practice should be hard and disciplined. Nothing is gained from practice for the sake of practice. Kids must be committed to practice.

*The state needs to increase participation. School Boy duals are a good place to start. I would guess 60% of the kids on my son’s SB duals teams continue to wrestle in the summer, with success. These kids develop bonds that appear to last for a long time. Hand out fliers on these duals at Kids State. Let them know that Freestyle State is a qualifier. I think the goal should be to have 2 teams. I know that would be difficult as the team leader is frequently struggling to find kids to fill the upper weights, but without goals you do not get anywhere.

The reason I say to start at the School Boy level addresses Shawn’s point. A lot of young kids (and their farthers/ coaches) have a real problem understanding how they get the take down and the other kid got 2 points and they only got one. Also, do we really need to teach little kids to throw the head lock and lock hands. I know some can handle it, not trying to start an argument. But if a young kid is not practicing this at least twice a week, do not take them to Freestyle state just for fun. Many will never want to come back.

* We need more opportunities in Kansas for kids to wrestle Freestyle/Greco. Prior to Freestyle/Greco state there are 2 tournaments in Kansas?? St. James and Baldwin. And, then 2 in Wichita afterwards. These styles are different. The kids need mat time prior to going to the major competitions.

* Explain how it will help in folkstyle. I believe summer wrestling HAS helped my son. I think freestyle makes kids a lot better on their feet (my son excluded). Additionally, by defending the gut, kids who wrestle these styles become difficult to score back points on, in my opinion. I am sure people who are actually coaches can give the advantages better than I can. Just look at the success of some of the summer wrestlers in HS state.

* We need to make Southern Plains a priority for our School Boys and up. It gives seating points for Cadets and Jrs for the duals. It is a great opportunity to face good kids from our surrounding states. However, it is expensive. One day off work for most of us. Two nights in a hotel. Maybe a Friday morning weigh-in would help and a change in locations, and not Denver??

* I know the people who put together the dual teams do a great job, in an environment where a commitment to wrestle in the duals appears meaningless, but would a qualifier for Cadet and Junior Duals help? Will started doing that with middle school duals, and it appears to be a big success. I am not complaining about the way the teams are put together - I just wonder if Will’s success can be duplicated.

* Cadet Duals is in Florida again, get started now with a plan to make it affordable or find an alternative. This is a training ground for Jr. Duals and Fargo. We shouldn’t miss 2 years.

Finally, I asked my son the question Coach Church asked, he had one answer, unlike his wordy dad, START EARLIER.

I do think Coach failed to point out on his #2 that a kid can do both – enjoy himself and have success (judged differently for each participant).

Finally, thanks to all who helped put this trip and season together. From my son’s perspective it was big success. He made friends and is still talking about it. Thanks!!!

We sacrificed Cadet Duals to keep the price the same for Fargo. I personally thought this was a big mistake and I tried to get the cost advertised as $550 per kid if we could get 24 wrestlers to commit but it just didn't happen. I think it is time that the entire Fargo Budget is itemized and detailed so that everyone can see how much we spend on gear each year. Yea, kids go for $500 which is cheap compared to most states but how much do we spend on: coaches, coach gear, wrestler's gear, it is $75 per style entry fee, dorms, food, transportation, prep camp, etc. Gear should have been sacrificed and we should have been taking cadets to Florida. A pair of shorts, tshirt and singlets is all that these kids need. Do coaches really need anything beyond a tshirt?? I don't think so. I would rather see us paying our coaches. Heck we are even expected to furnish gear for our officials. That is the stupidest thing I have heard since I started helping with summer wrestling.

Coaching... No offense is meant but I am sure some will be taken. Three of the last four opponents Ryne wrestled were coached by: Zach Roberson, Max Askren, and John Mesenbrink (Ben Askren & Max Askren's HS coach as well as Ben's personal coach). The best kids are the kids who work the hardest and they should have the best coaching. Don't even give me any crap about "it doesn't matter who is in your corner". It does! That 15 minutes before you step on the mat is the most important time to have a coach especially when you reach rounds 5 and beyond. There is no way an AA contender should be looking for his coach when he walks onto the mat and it isn't acceptable for a match to start without a coach being in their corner. Fargo is about the big things (practice and preparation) and the little things (proper prematch warmup, mental preparation and visualization, coaches getting their wrestler ready for the critical matches, air conditioned rooms for a good night's rest, proper weight control and nutrition.) If you aren't going to train and take this tournament seriously you don't deserve the same attention and coaching experience as those who do, bottom line.

The AC situation...
Kids were actually called out by this statement "We have had wrestlers place here before when the dorms were hot." My kids were going to stay in my hotel room but were basically shamed into staying in the dorms because it is "team policy". That is crap! I paid $500 for Junior Duals, $675 for Southern Plains Camp, $150 for Southern Plains, $50 for Central Plains, $1175 for Fargo all to USA Wrestling (this doesn't count any personal expenses and the $150 I had to pay for admission at Fargo) to be told that my kids shouldn't stay in an air conditioned hotel room when it was 85 and 75 percent humidity. Honsetly, can anyone make sense out of that?? There is NO WAY your body can tolerate sleepless nights, workouts, tournament matches and perform at its peak. This rule has to change!

Further, if a coach tells a wrestler he is going to be his coach then he better dang well be there! There is nothing more disappointing to me than being lied to. Both to the parent and the wrestler...

We have to spread our coaching pretty thin because of the numbers we take to Fargo. That all sounds good until you consider that many of the wrestlers from Kansas roll off the couch and the only preperation they get is the McPherson Camp. Lots of kids go just to get the cool gear. I personally do not buy in to all of this gear. Do we really need to give a kid a gear bag every year? Ryne has five of them now... It is overkill and a waste. I think it is terrible when I see our kids that go 0-2 out on the sidewalk selling their gear! How many of their parents realize that they might be putting $200 back into their pocket from the $500 they spent to send their kid to Fargo. It shouldn't be about quantity but about quality.

I would like to see us set the price to go to Fargo at $600 and then let our wrestlers earn their way onto the team. $50 discount if you go to Southern Plains Camp. $25 if you wrestle in any USA regional tournament, $50 if you place. $50 if you compete on the Junior or Cadet Dual team. $50 off if you place in the top 3 at USA Folkstyle Nationals. $10 off for every regional training center practice you attend. If we want our kids to go to FS/GR state then reward the winners with a discount to Nationals instead of a jacket (at least give them the option) We also need to have more clinics and less tournaments or have the clinics on Friday evening, tournaments on Saturday and finish with a clinic session on Saturday evening and Sunday morning. We have to have more drilling and more basics being pushed. Our gut defense was atrocious this year!

1) Better coaching plan
2) More drilling and mat time between HS State and Fargo
3) Better preparation camp plan
4) More communication from leadership
5) Better housing for the team
6) Focus on winning not just taking 100 kids to Fargo
7) Budget to send dual teams not just buy cool gear

Will, what’s your deal lately man, from being so negative to the Kansas coaches, to what you were talking about when I was sitting behind you in Oklahoma City. It seems to me that you should seek counseling from a local pastor or church elder to get things right in your life with the lord.
God bless,

http://www.cephas-library.com/baptists_youth_pastor_illicit_sex.html

Rev Randy,

I have been checking you out on the internet...

Hope you get some help.

Will

Now, Will in your earlier post you talk about not being able to stand being lied to but now it is ok for you to spread lies about me. And further more on this topic about bring home AA , I believe first there has to be love in the home before kids can perform on the mat. Maybe you should take this in, and look at the situation before blaming coaches.

How am I to know if you are the Rev Randy in the article or some other Rev Randy? Speculation is not lieing. Plenty of love in my house. I didn't really blame coaching just the plan and process. It is a total package effort. I like all of the coaches on the staff, even the ones I don't know. They donate their time and try hard but that doesn't mean they all are a fit for Fargo.

I read the infamous Will Cokeley post: My initial reaction was frustration and violent thoughts of how I was going to handle this. Then I had to remember how Christ would handle the situation and aI calmed down. I then said, "If nobody responds, then that would eat at him worse". But now that I gave it the 24 hour of thought I have this question:

1)Which coaches are not fit for Fargo?
a)Dennis Charbonneau
b)Tom Peterman
c)Russ Hermreck
d)Mike Church
e)Travis Keil
f)Zach Poague
g)Scott Reik
h)Clint Slyter
i)Adam Venegas
j)Brett Fiene
k)Brandon Jobe

Don't worry about offending any of us... You have already done that... So feel free to keep on the onslaught.

About Max Askren, Ben Askren, etc. On the mat, most of us probably would not last 20 seconds with them. But that matters NONE when it comes to coaching. I believe most of those guys listed are better coaches then guys you mention b/c we don't just coach the elite. We coach all levels of kids which I would bet most of those guys you mentioned don't do.

Now, you said that the best coaches should coach the best kids. No offense, but your youngest son did not fair well at Fargo. How would you have felt if he would of had less coaching than a placer. That's not how it works. As coaches, we coach all kids in front of us. Not just the upper level that make us look good. Some coaches have made a living off just coaching the best kids and ignoring the rest. I would like to see them get a room full of beginners and build them up. They can't.

Will, you are on about every USAWKS board that I can think of off the top of my head. This means that you are supposed to be working with the National Team Coaching Staff and Coordinators. That being said, it is 100% inappropriate for you to get on here and bash the people you are working with. You are a successful business man. Would that work in the business world. Getting on a public forum and bashing those you work with? There is a time and place for this and it's not on here! So, if you want to get on here and tear people apart, resign from all positions in USAWKS and then feel free to be a normal everyday Joe that talks smack. If your not willing to do that... find the proper time and place to have this discussion...Not on here.

This coaching staff was working on how to get better for next year before we left Fargo this year!!! We have had daily discussions and ideas about it. Do you think we were happy with 1 Freestyle AA in Cadet, 1 in Junior and 1 in Womens? NO!

You have made this a personal agenda, when that is not your job. You have a great son in Ryne. You were not happy with the outcome of his Junior Career. That's fine, but that does not mean you get on here and bash those who you work with. You need to work hard on separating personal life and business when it comes to USAWKS.

On a side note: Mike Medina is your sons coach. His brother Gonz Medina sells all of the gear to team Kansas. Gonz does a great job and gives us good pricing from what I hear. Do we really want to cut our business down 90% with Bluechip? I guess you can take that up with them.

I will end with this. You are the director of Southern Plains. I have heard nothing but negative feedback about Southern Plains camp for the past 2 years. This from coaches and athletes alike. You don't see any of us coaches on here bashing you for organization, coaches, training plans etc. Nope, not on a Public Forum.... Something to think about.

P.S. I really want to meet Reverend Randy! Seems like a good dude!

I like it when Will gets on here and informs the masses. I agree maybe we need to inject new life into this coaching staff. We have a lot of ex college wrestlers with freestyle and greco experience that would be a great addition to what we have now. The current bunch of coaches does no promotion for these events at all. They should be talking to high school kids and their coaches all season to drum up support for summer wrestling.Keep the young guys Slyter, Jobe ,Venegas, bring in some new young coaches like Nick Flynn and let some of the old dead wood slip away. Church your comment on cutting sales with bluechip by 90% so what if that happens, we shouldn't be concerned with giving Gonz business instead we should be increasing participation and keeping costs as low as possible to get kids interested. a couple of years ago one of your high school wrestlers lied about his age to wrestle cadets, It just amazes me that you didn't know how old one of your own wrestlers was, you should of resigned from usa wrestling on the spot. Keep it up Will there are some on here that like your input. Reverand Randy no pedophiles allowed on this board.

Rassler,

Good point and since you know that whole situation and trail of documents I will resign in the morning. I will go back to fake/altered birth certificate school and be ready if my turn ever comes around again!

Thank you for your input and recommendations for the future. You are a gentleman and a scholar!

Keep putting in your two cents and I needed it. Maybe someday I will be good enough and smart enough to coach again!

It is done!!!!!

Oh, I had to edit this...I agree with you rassler about one thing...I like Slyter, Jobe and Venegas and think they are young hungry coaches... They are going to do great things... and I truly 100% mean that!

I think the coaching staff that is in place is a fine one. We have some great young coaches and some vetaran coaches as well. I think that we have a the right fit. I am not old, dead, or wood. I also know that many of these coaches do promote the freestyle/greco season. I can speak for Church and I. We try to spread the word the best that we can. The KC guys have the KCTC, and I believe that Jobe also has his room. Church runs a great training site for USAW, somewhere that I and Coach Fiene also help out. MANY conversations at Fargo were on what can we do to make Kansas better. I believe there are some great ideas out there. Church at I talked at great length on the way home on what we plan to do in the Metro area along with Coach Fiene to get better. Rassler would you know every single one of your athletes birth dates? Sometimes an athlete needs to be held accountable to do the right thing. I think everyone who knows Coach Church would agree that him resigning would NOT be for the greater good of Kansas Wretling. Thats just my 2 cents really.

Any coach who doesn't think it matters who is in the corner. Any coach who doesn't want to spend the time, prematch, with the wrestler. Any coach who wouldn't step aside if a wrestler wanted a different coach in their corner. Any coach who would tell a wrestler he was going to be in his corner for every match but then doesn't show up without telling the wrestler he wasn't going to be there. Any coach who doesn't think sleeping in an air conditioned room wouldn't give your body better recovery for the next day's battles. Any coach who doesn't care as much as the wrestler does about the outcome of the match. Any coach who was offended by my post.

And seriously, do you really think no responses would have eaten at me? Nothing will eat at me more than three empty trips home from Fargo, one win away from the podium. I have two more boys and I want to improve their chances. Either you are on board or you can get left behind.

Illinois is the model for success right now. Who on your list is our Sean Bormet? I am just asking...

FYI Scott wasn't there this year but he is fit for Fargo.

Also, I said "not a fit for Fargo" which is different than "fit for Fargo". Fit for Fargo would imply that they were not capable or not prepared. Not a fit just means that their style or approach doesn't work at this tournament.

You left Grater off your list... probably the best fit since he has Won there and knows what it takes.

As far as SP goes. I send out email, solicit feedback from parents and wrestlers, talk to everyone I know to improve it. Jobe and Grater are on that staff. Neither one of them have fired back any negative feedback. One of your athletes has coached there the last two years and I hear nothing from him. Instead of taking a cheap, blind shot tell me what you know. I am all ears.

I am not easily offended and I am NOT going to agree with your philosophy. OVERTIME wrestling is the key to Illinois success. Russ loves Sean Bormet and they coach the elite seperately from the others. Summer wrestling is not school wrestling. Those who worked the hardest deserve the best coaching.

As far as Reese is concerned, when he puts in the time and effort that his brother has then he will see the results. When he does better then he will deserve better. I am more than fine with my suggestion being applied to him. I am not a socialist! You earn what you get. FAIR is where you buy cotton candy.

You started this post and you asked for feedback, I am giving it to you. I just don't sugar coat it, never have an never will. You can run for my position and take over SP Camp, Middle School Duals, Schoolboy Duals, and show me up. I am sure you are far better equipped both personally and professionally than I am. If you run I will withdraw because I wouldn't want to suffer the humiliation of the landslide of votes you will surely garner with your superior skills, philosophies and attitude.

Gonz and the gear. Again, I am not a socialist. Gonz can earn his money through being a good business man. If the stuff is great then the kids can buy it with their money. USAWKS subsidizes Fargo and I don't agree with buying $20,000 worth of gear when $6500 would be sufficient. "The kids like it and that is why some of them sign up for Fargo." You don't have a problem with that???

You know that many of this staff talks crap behind my back and this summer some crossed the line and did it in front of my boys. Man up and say it to my face. Don't lie to me as I will not lie to you. I believe in transparency. If you can't post it on this forum then don't be a c.s. and say it behind closed doors in a meeting. The staff isn't the only group capable of working on better ways to do things but it has become a bit too "good ole boyish" from my perspective as no one else is worthy of being on the staff or contributing to the improvements.

Church, your job isn't to tell me what my job is. Feel free to openly criticize any and everything I have done that you don't agree with. You can do on this forum, on tv, on the radio, in the USA Today, I will read it and figure out how to fix it or quit. The forum is a great place for airing things out, you just used it as such a mechanism but you blasted me for doing so. I post because I care, bottom line. We need more people with passion and who are willing to care as much as I do.

Please let me know if you intend to run for FS/GR Director so I can spend my campaign budget on something else. At least I promptly return phone calls and emails and I don't lie.

The next opponent is Devin Bera from Wisconsin. Kingsley knew nothing about him and really didn't care to know anything about his accomplishments. He would prefer to experience it, rather than hear about him. Bera made it into the second period, but was pinned at the 15-second mark. After this bout, one of Brandon's coaches, Jared Lawrence, an NCAA champion and four-time All-American at the University of Minnesota, came over to show him a move called the "West Point." He told BK he wants to see him use it today.


An excerpt from http://www.intermatwrestle.com/articles/8762

Well, well...

I have to say that I am personal friends with both Mike Church and Will Cokeley. Both are valuable assets to Kansas wrestling.

I have always viewed this forum as a family discussion. A place where we can roll our sleeves up and talk candidly about our praises and concerns. Most of the time it is difficult to get complete clarity in writing but occasionally you hit the nail on the head. As pointed as the previous exchange was, it was nice to see passionate wrestling servants "airing it out". That's how you get things done. That's how you manufacture change.

We have all let our emotions get the best of us. What makes me smile is that I know both of these guys can let it rip and still high five each other for the positive cause of Kansas wrestling!

It's a privilege and a blessing!

- Chief

Good points chief.

I do not intend to run for FS/GR Director as I plan on spending my time on running as the Republican Candidate in the 2012 election. I just don't feel I am going to have the time to run the country and Kansas Summer Wrestling. Feel free to send your campaign budget to "Church for President" campaign fund though!

Whew the sparks are a flyin...........
I think I am the oldest coach on both staffs, so if I am the old dead wood you are referring to I would be glad to step down if need be.

My two cents:

1. Maybe we need to lower the gear supply to lower the costs; I use to be in charge of the gear and enjoyed helping Gonz design and decide what gear we would have. But I do not think the gear has anything to do with it. All the other good states have nice gear. Some of their kids are only going to get gear and trade it.

2. Planning - we need to help kids to do a better job of planning their summer training. We need to help them make calendars of what competitions they plan to do and what practices/clinics/camps they plan to attend. In the HayDay of the East Kansas club those kids did not just show up. They came to work and improve on certain skills (i.e. gutwrench, gutwrench defense, clinches, and takedown finishes)

Ending for now but plan to talk about more, it was very discouraging attending the Sunday training camps to have 10 -16 kids there at St. James and even less at some of the other locations.

Tom Peterman