I disagree....its a BRILLIANT CALL. Should be used more, especially with the Heavy Weights.

It's a decent tool to use, especially after hitting them both, then bringing them to the center of the mat and telling them the next one to back up is getting hit for stalling. Suddenly they become alive.

On that note I had an official in HS that hit a couple heavies early in the OT like 10 seconds in, stopped the match and took them directly to the ultimate tie-breaker. Interesting to say the least...

Pick a guy. One is always worse than the other. You are just setting yourself up for determining the winner of a match, especially at 285. I saw the Derby finals ended in OT by this very situation. Double stall in first. Decided the BC guy was stalling more in OT and that was it. No fan wants to see a match ended that way but maybe the mom!

So they are both Stalling, but penalize only one? I dont think that is the right call. If they are both Stalling they should both be penalized. This does not only happen in the heavyweights, it also happens at any weight when two good wrestlers are afraid to lose and they both clam up and wont wrestle. Then its a good call to get them both to open up.

I have seen this also. Makes sense. if you are not going to wrestle on the feet move to the second ot period.

Will, It is not deciding the match. It is raising the bar. It is a far better way to go than letting who ever wins the coin flip score an escape and win choice in the final ot.

I have a real probablem with a ref stopping the first overtime short to move to the second and third. So the 2 wrestlers didn't wrestle for 50 seconds? How is this ethical? Can anyone point out in the rule book where this is allowed?

As I see it, the issue is when the ref has allowed the pushing and dancing to go on too long and then he feels he needs to act so he hits both of them. Here's a thought, in the first period after 15 - 20 seconds of non-action call a stalemate. Take the wrestlers to the center and give them a quick warning and then follow through.

I wish I would of gotten the name of the referee who officiated the varsity matches between BVW and Ray-Pec last night. Great job of calling both stalemates and stalling. Pushed the action. Best job I've seen in the last 6 years!

Stalling...its the most complained-about call in wrestling.
Everybody wants it called...on the other guy. We talk about it at almost every officials/supervisor meeting. Its gotten much more consistent over the years.

Here's my opinion, and that's all it is:

The reason stalling is a violation is because stalling in wrestling makes it boring to watch. No other sport penalizes stalling (some might argue the shot clock is similar). So its purpose is to keep the match interesting.In many matches, they are either interesting enough already, or nothing is going to make them so. So calling stalling serves no purpose.

Some don't know the rules. It is not required that you bring your opponent back to the mat if he stands up. You must make an effort. That's the rule. Too many officials, coaches, and fans think that there is some time limit (5 secs) to accomplish the return. That is not the rule and should not be called unless no effort to return is being made. Many, many, blown calls on this point.

There is a difference between strategic stalling and inability to wrestle stalling. A kid 30 pounds overweight and without any conditioning isn't stalling when he lays down on the mat, he is preventing an early cardiac arrest. Same goes for kids that do not know any moves. If you can't wrestle, you can't stall. Both these situations occur from time to time. Some might argue they happen most of the time. I'm not so cynical.But stalling does seem to require an intent to stall. If you are riding on top, and you simply do not have the strength, ability, or knowledge to to turn your opponent, you are not stalling, you are just not very talented. The official, in a few short minutes, has to decide what is going on....lack of ability, or lack of desire.
Also, the same inaction in the 3rd period may not be stalling although it would have been in the first period.

Equally matched wrestlers may not be able to improve their positions because attempting to do so will give up an advantage. Should that be considered stalling? Also, while it is clearly stalling, many believe that a wrestler that only "counters" shots on his feet should not be penalized. The rules say otherwise.

If a wrestler works hard and earns a lead, protecting that lead would be stalling. No other sport takes this approach. On the other hand, wrestling is designed to be the most "fair" sport there is -- two opponents of equal weight facing off.

On a personal note. After my first couple years I decided that stalling wasn't being called enough so I took it upon myself to "call stalling whenever it occurs." I bought Dave Frisch's (NCAA) tape on the topic and focused particularly on early calls in the first period using his "shot counting" method. It drove the coaches crazy and while I'm sure every call was sound, they could not handle it. Also, I used Frisch's approach that if the wrestlers ended up out of bounds someone was probably stalling.
While I still believe that to be the case in most situations (how many times do you see a kid make no effort to stay in bounds when on the edge--that is, by definition, stalling or fleeing yet it happens 100s of time during a tournament without either call).

If stalling was called by the book, few matches would go the distance. Most would end up with a DQ on stalling penalties. Maybe if that started happening, the kids would pick up the pace, but my guess is the coaches would put a stop to calls. This year college rules took stalling off the penalty sequence and stalling calls won't result in a DQ, regardless of the number. If that rule trickles down, stalling might get called more often, similar to false starts.

However, after all this, there are some pretty well-recognized situations where stalling does occur and it doesn't get called. My opinion is that the officials have decided, whether consciously or not, that it just isn't worth listening to the harping to make those calls.

Finally, I can't let Will off the hook on his comment that a double stall is a bad call. If both are stalling, both are stalling and it happens on the feet regularly. Either don't call either or call both, but don't pick one as the bigger offender. It takes two to wrestle.If you want to have some criteria--and mine is who is going out of bounds first, then call one and not the other on that basis, but trying to figure out who is stalling less is hard to justify.

On Wednesday it Killes Hunter Haralson at southwest. Hunter just look dead on bottom and I think lost 1-2 points on stalling and not moving on bottom and it was 8-8. Then he looked dead on his feet and lost in Overtime

"Everybody wants it called...on the other guy."
- not always the case. Many high school coaches would not mind stalling called on their wrestlers when they are stalling.

"In many matches, they are either interesting enough already, or nothing is going to make them so. So calling stalling serves no purpose."
- did you really just write this?

"Some don't know the rules. It is not required that you bring your opponent back to the mat if he stands up. You must make an effort. That's the rule. Too many officials, coaches, and fans think that there is some time limit (5 secs) to accomplish the return. That is not the rule and should not be called unless no effort to return is being made. Many, many, blown calls on this point. "
- Any good wrestling fan can see effort or attempt to bring someone down to the mat. Fans will be fans and scream for their kids. Refs in Kansas do do a pretty good job on this call already.

"A kid 30 pounds overweight and without any conditioning isn't stalling when he lays down on the mat, he is preventing an early cardiac arrest."
- If a kid is out of shape and not doing anything than stalling is exactly what they are doing. Part of wrestling is being in shape.

"Equally matched wrestlers may not be able to improve their positions because attempting to do so will give up an advantage. Should that be considered stalling?"
- YES

"If a wrestler works hard and earns a lead, protecting that lead would be stalling."
- Yes, if he stops wrestling, you are stalling.

"If stalling was called by the book, few matches would go the distance."
- So instead 0 stalls calls are made! How does that make sense? Nobody is telling a ref to DQ a kid. Stalling can still be a factor in a match without DQ-ing a kid.

"This year college rules took stalling off the penalty sequence and stalling calls won't result in a DQ, regardless of the number."
- College refs called stalling before this year on a pretty consistent level already.

"However, after all this, there are some pretty well-recognized situations where stalling does occur and it doesn't get called. My opinion is that the officials have decided, whether consciously or not, that it just isn't worth listening to the harping to make those calls."
- This is sad to hear, because you talked about reffing on a personal level. GROW A SACK! Tell the coaches to shove it and make calls the way they need to be called. If the job is too tough then don't do it!

Wow, lazyman 1, good call. I read that post and thought many of the same things but was just to lazy to break it down and comment. Or maybe I was stalling.......I am easily 30 pounds overweight and trying to avoid a visit to the cath lab?

How many times can the top man drop to an ankle and just hang on? I was under the impression that this was stalling. The top wrestler can drop to the ankle, but needs to work up. If a wrestler is just hanging on the ankle for three to four minutes of a match, the official needs to make the call. First two times I think a stalemate should be called. Everytime after that the top man is stalling.

Sorry for the double post.

i thinks STALLING is consistently called inconsistently. at a tournament last weekend, i watched a 145lb match where the wrestlers have faced each other about 4 times already this year. neither was going to engage the other, so we sat through 3 periods of "the dance" barely even hand fighting. the fans would have benefited from a "double stall call" then. the same tourney in the hwt match, it was the usual- no real attempts at takedowns, but a whole lot of pushing, pulling and belly rubbin'- wrestler "A" is a better belly rubber, and pushes more, so .......... wrestler "B" gets dinged for stalling. not sure if it was the same ref or not, but the crew should get together and decide on how they are going control the action. INCONSISTENT.



most all sports have some sort of rule in place to prevent "stalling" or to press the action. each in their own way.
basketball- shot clock
football- play clock
hockey- offsides call presses the action
soccer- the goalie box presses the action
mma- the stand up

most sports don't have rules in place to prevent stalling as strategy. you touched on that also, but athletes, and coaches will find a way to use stalling as a tactic no matter how the rule changes.

in college wrestling you hear it all the time from announcers. "oh he has the riding time advantage......or he has a two point lead......so he has a stall call to give"

I officated this weekend with stalling on my mind. It was a JV tournament, though. Even though I was more conscious of it, there wasn't a whole lot of situations where the call was made. There was one tactic I used that worked and I want to pass it along. In the heavier weights, 220 and HWT I told the wrestlers up front that they were required to make every effort to stay in bounds and if they went out of bounds it was stalling and would be called on the wrestler that went out of bounds.

It worked great and I'm using it to keep the action going. Some of the coaches complained that their kid was being blocked and pushed but all the kid being pushed had to do was turn in towards the center and avoid being taken out of bounds. Again, it worked great. After the initial warning I had little clock stoppage and after the first point no one went out again. It was eye-opening for me. And these were JV kids so if they "got it" the varsity wrestlers certainly will. Its going to cause some coaches some angst but its an effective approach to preventing kids from just using the OOB to stop the action. Just in time for the post-season!

My 2nd least favorite stall call is the "here you go coach" fist that flies up with 8 ticks left and isn't going to make one bit of difference. Do us a favor, leave your hand down quit trying to save face for the failure to give the warning when stalling was happening earlier and could have made a difference in the match.

Well said Mr. Cokeley....Well Said!

To be clear, the referee has NO business coaching ("told the wrestlers up front that they were required to make every effort to stay in bounds,...,") the wrestlers. If the wrestler pushes the other out of bounds, ding him, if the wrestler is stalling, ding him. The referee should be conscious of all the rules, and call all consistently.

Based on what I have read regarding your previous statements in this thread on stalling and this last statement you have competency issues and I question if your are qualified to officiate at any level.

The "courtesy stall call".......my least favorite

Cokeley posted this link a couple of months ago: http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/240...ves-on-Stalling

Shows several video clips NJ ref certifiers in a clinic discussing stalling. Very very informative. Everyone on this post should watch all of the videos.