Somebody inform me about the stalling rules. This weekend the offical called stalling on my son when he took 2 or 3 steps back and then hit a firemans. The offical acutually had to change his hand from a fist to two points, twice. I dont understand this being a bb player. Plus why is it every year that things get called differently at the end of the year and in the 3rd period form the 1st from the beginning of the year? A rule is a rule call it so the wrestlers can adapt.

Seems the rules change according to school and individul wrestler. We had a kid that lived in the next town south of us that was notorious for stalling and hardly ever got called.

I tought wrestling was kinda of a community I guess not don't want to give too much up. You're more interested in 84-0 posts than answering a liget post

What's not legit? What do you want to know? The rule book has specific instances where stalling should be called, but in most cases, the referee has to make a decision as to whether or not a wrestler is trying to improve his position and actively work on improving whether top, bottom or neutral. I have heard of a back-step takedown, but not a three-step back takedown and generally when someone backs straight out of the circle, he will get called for stalling. The wrestling rule book is thin because there is a high level of subjectivity to wrestling. Get in shape, out-work your opponent and make this a non-issue.

Coach DeWitt is right on the money! My feelings are that wrestlers should get nailed more frequently for "backing up." And if I am not mistaken, you could also lose a point for fleeing the mat.

Many takedowns are set up with your opponent's motion coming toward you. This is accomplished sometimes with a circular step, sometimes with a downward snap of your opponent's head, and sometimes with a step backward. The official needs to read the wrestler's body language and the circustances in the match to determine whether there is a legitimate attempt being made to gain a takedown. It is subjective, but it leaves available a great deal of offense that might be taken away if steps backwards are determined to be stalling.

There have been attempts to make neutral position stalling more objective, but most of it has met with frustration.

One state that has done this is Missouri. Talking with an official from there and they will proudly say that "they call stalling much more aggressively than Kansas". Many of Missouri's officials are dedicated to the one step backward is stalling rule. I think they are missing out on some great takedowns.

Gary Ulmer

Coach Ulmer and Coach DeWitt:

The question I raise is the inconsistency, often by the same referee from match to match, with their view of stalling.

If the referee is consistent with their calls this eliminates the majority of the debate as all know that officials views.

When the referee awards a wrestler a stalling point with two (2) seconds remaining in a match while the wrestler on top was attempting to release the bottom wrestler, and seven (7) matches later allows the wrestler on bottom to lay on the mat with no effort to improve their position, serious heartburn is created.

I believe consistency in the application of the rule would have a positive impact on the sport for all.

Thank you for your information. We'll work on more side to side motion and circling to avoid the possible stalling call.

I love stalling!

Richard,

I agree with you and your concern for consistency, and the top and bottom positions always seems the spot where it lacks the most.

When in the neutral position, I have always thought that one can pretty well tell by the behavior of the wrestler whether he/she is stalling or not. Officiating consistency, when on the feet, seemed pretty good whether I agreed with them or not. Some of the officials I agreed with almost all the time and others I agreed with almost none of the time. Either way there was consistency.

On bottom and top there never has been a concensus as to who is responsible for action. You ask one official and he will say the top man, another will say the bottom, and the next will say both are equally responsible. I once had a wrestler get stalled out on bottom when he was wrapped up so tight he could do little but blink his eyes.

I would admit that I enjoy the human element of stalling decisions being made by a referee and not by a rule book. I have always thought that if stalling became too specifically legislated that some of the fun of the sport would be taken out of it. Almost all of us who have done the sport can say we have been harpooned by an official at one time or another, and we get to spend the rest of our lives complaining about it.

Gary Ulmer

As a wrestler I have been on both ends of the spectrum, being called for stalling and being one of the ones stalled against. I have seen many refs not call stalling when they know it is occuring, not saying it's a bad call they believe one wrestler is doing enough to be "Offensive" and the other is "Defensive" so nothing is done, although I have seen some officals in Kansas call stalling very quickly, such as the other nite in one our duals the ref would call stalling if there wasn't any action by the bottom man for 5 seconds, while the top man could sit on top for 2 minutes and do nothing and not get called.

I am a leg rider so i know how to stall on top, but i meet the criteria of not stalling by working various moves on the top, cross face, power half, guillotene etc. and just alternate the moves, usually the kid on bottom will stall, he'll flat out belly down, arms in etc. and not let you turn them, and usually they don't get called for it because i am working something it's considered defending it, one ref will call it stalling on the bottom man, and i have been called for it this year as stalling on myself because i put in a leg and the bottom guy won't move so i can do anything so i get called, but usually it turns into a stalemate.

This is one the most uncertain things about refs out there, as far as consistency on stalling calls, but i believe that many try to make it consistent but fail to do so because so many wrestlers have different styles, stalling is a very fine line between stalling and being defensive, but i guess that is to the refs discretion

Alex

The fact that referees are human has a great deal to do with many of the calls. Mr. Salyer, I personally believe that you have a right to protect a lead. I mean, you must have been working hard for the first five minutes while your oponent did nothing while you built your lead. Why then, should you be penalized because all of the sudden your opponent decides to wrestle the last minute of a match? Those are the only calls that frustrate me. Some referees seem to want to force a little more action towards the end of the match, but I think we've all gotten used to that and have adjusted accordingly.

Most referees in my area are consistent with their stalling calls and don't seem like they are out to get anybody. I don't always agree with them, but at least they are consistent. Stalling is something we address in practice and make working the center of the mat one of our primary goals. My athletes know how I feel about them having stalling calls against them and they are aware that there are extra-conditioning activities for those people not in good enough shape to go six minutes.

I will tell you this, if my wrestler is up 3-1, has no stalling calls against him, cuts his opponent with 10 seconds left in a match and then runs around in a circle so that his opponent can't catch him, I have no problem with that. If somebody does that to us, then we should not have been down 3-1 at the end of the third period anyways!

posted February 13, 2005 05:22 PM
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"Coach Ulmer and Coach DeWitt:

The question I raise is the inconsistency, often by the same referee from match to match, with their view of stalling.

If the referee is consistent with their calls this eliminates the majority of the debate as all know that officials views.

When the referee awards a wrestler a stalling point with two (2) seconds remaining in a match while the wrestler on top was attempting to release the bottom wrestler, and seven (7) matches later allows the wrestler on bottom to lay on the mat with no effort to improve their position, serious heartburn is created.

I believe consistency in the application of the rule would have a positive impact on the sport for all."

Richard, have you seen this happen lately?

Coach Church:

Certainly not this weekend at the Wichita City League Tournament!

As your father stated earlier in another thread, there could be numerous pages written on the officiating at the tournament!

I my humble opinion stalling is a tough call for refs. It seems like there is alot of confusion as to what stalling is. I think that it is called differently especially at the end of the day when a ref is worn out. I personally believe that stalling occurs when a wrestler is not wrestling aggresively. I believe that stalling is occuring from the neutral position if a wrestler is not making a honest attempt at a take down....from the neutral position when the defensive man takes one or both legs and holds them to the buttocks of the offensive man who took the shot. From the bottom when the defensive man is not making an effort to esacape or reverse the opponent...or is clamped up tight trying to get a stalmate. I believe that stalling is occuring when the top/advantge man is not working towards securing near fall criteria and or a fall.
I do not know if everyone shares the same opinion as me and I really don't expect anyone to agree..I have learned one thing about refs it does you absolutely no good to try and talk your way into a stalling call.....it tends to irritate the ref. So as a coach I would preach aggressive wrestling as a way to aviod those calls. I would also preach the thought that "you can not depend on a ref to win a match for you...you have to wrestle hard enough and execute perfectly"...when you do this it takes the ref out of the match. Some old wrestling coach told me that a long time ago.....he probally does not remember it but he knows who he is and he has posted his thought in this thread.
Well I hope I have not offended anyone I just thought I would say my peace.
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE IN REGIONALS THIS COMING WEEKEND AND BE SAFE!!!!

Came down to the GWAL tourney to watch the finals.

First off, I thought the quality of finals matches were down this year.

Second, in a metro of over 1 million people, what is it going to take to find some quality officiating down there?

Case in point - the 189 lb. match between BC and SE. At the end of the second period, BC's wrestler takes SE's wrestler down with 20 seconds left. 2 pts are awarded and blood time begins for SE. After cleaning him up, the officials start them back on their feet. This shouldn't have happened and I think I know why the coaches didn't say anything.

SE was outclassed and from a BC perspective, keep mum and we'll get another takedown, closing in the 15 pt. tech fall. SE, to hopefully end the match sooner. Good kid, just outmanned.

But it went beyond the two officials on the mat, the score keeper, and everyone else.

After the wrestlers restarted on their feet, I thought the takedown was perhaps waived off and the scorer did not reset the score clock.

There were plenty of questionable calls all day long, however this match, the stalling calls in the 130 lb. match, and the lack of stalling call(s) in the 215 lb. match were blatant!

Stalling is just a difficult in wrestling as the block/charge in basketball!!!

I hate to say it, but it's all in the judgment of the ref. I try to keep it consistent, but I never keep coaches, spectators or critics happy.

Sometimes, there are things happening (hand fighting in the ref's position for ex.) that prevent me from calling it stalling. On the feet, it's very difficult to determine if the red is stalling or trying to set green up something up...or is he just trying to making it look like he's setting something up?

Signs I look for: clock watching, looking to the corner "too much" (although this is ambiguous...), being overpowered on bottom vs. not presenting themselves/working for a base.
I try to give the contestants a verbal before I hit one of them for stalling: "action" or "shots" on their feet - "work to improve" in ref's position. Don't know who I'm talking to, but they both get working or I hit the one who I think is stalling before I spoke.

It's not wrong for a coach or a captain to ask for the ref's personal definition of stalling during the pre-dual/pre-meet ritual. I get the question from time-to-time. My answer? Keep working constantly and you won't have to worry...

I cannot and do not speak for my fellow refs, but this is my viewpoint and opinion...

I wholehartedly agree with you Shane, its sometimes a tough call to make, Like Shane says I would encourage coaches to ask the official before the event starts for a definition that way they know what to expect.

Can you honestly be called for stalling in double OT?