Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Jax]
#211550
01/13/13 09:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,079
doug747
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,079 |
The conscious kid either:1- was unfamiliar with how to finish a front headlock and was squeezing because he didn't know what else to do or 2-squeezing as hard as he could trying to inflict punishment/cutoff blood or air. Should have been stopped when he made zero effort to improve his position.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Cokeley]
#211551
01/13/13 09:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
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Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327 |
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Jax]
#211552
01/13/13 09:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
smokeycabin
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I think at 1 minute and 43 seconds of this video is the move that was used Pinching your elbows together from that position will definitely cut off air http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_8FlNvaBJsFargo 2012 182 1st Place Match: Michael Pixley (Missouri) vs. Chip Ness (Georgia)
Last edited by smokeycabin; 01/13/13 09:11 PM.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: smokeycabin]
#211554
01/13/13 09:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
smokeycabin
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Posts: 6,248 |
By the way nice tournament by STA as well as several other teams. Favorite time of year for me - fun to watch the young men scrapping from Kansas as well as the visitors from out of state.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Cokeley]
#211555
01/13/13 09:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411
Ed Wilson
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Posts: 411 |
At 31 seconds pixleys hand wraps around levis neck from back to front, clearly not an "accidental" placement.
Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?
Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Ed Wilson]
#211566
01/13/13 09:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,762
Dean Welsh
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Posts: 1,762 |
The Blue Springs kid that got OW (D.L.) . . . What is his history of accomplishments in wrestling? Very impressive. Fun to watch. Is he a senior?
D. Dean Welsh, Junction City ***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: ]
#211569
01/13/13 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 77
jhayes
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Posts: 77 |
Actually, Hagerty used to allow mma fights in his wrestling room. Just sayin': http://mmafrenzy.com/11853/former-high-s...ight-at-school/
Second: Mike Hagerty is a respected HS coach and DI referee. I don't think he would put his reputation on the line by allowing his wrestlers to perform illegal moves. I don't think any of us is more qualified then him to decide if it's illegal or not.
Was it proven that Hagerty was involved in the MMA fights? That's a pretty bold statement to make Hurla. You've stepped over the line by making that post. What happened with the lawsuit? Hagerty was cleared of the accusation that you just made. So next time you want to post something and provide an article, provide a post article too.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: ]
#211570
01/13/13 10:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Jax
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5 |
Jax, I'm assuming you're from Missouri. Welcome to the Kansas wrestling boards.
Here's my final thoughts on the subject before I focus on the Patriots game:
There is nothing funny about a kid getting choked out, so you're smiley face was very inappropriate.
If you want to see someone get choked out, go to Memorial Hall or the Voodoo Lounge. Kids should never get choked out in a high school wrestling room or a high school gymnasium. Your priorities are skewed. Good day sir. I'm laughing at your comments not a kid going out. Either way you cant lay there and wait for a ref. My kid had another squeezing his trachea, he fought out didn't lay there. I don't agree with choking a kid out.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Jax]
#211572
01/13/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411
Ed Wilson
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411 |
Jax, I'm assuming you're from Missouri. Welcome to the Kansas wrestling boards.
Here's my final thoughts on the subject before I focus on the Patriots game:
There is nothing funny about a kid getting choked out, so you're smiley face was very inappropriate.
If you want to see someone get choked out, go to Memorial Hall or the Voodoo Lounge. Kids should never get choked out in a high school wrestling room or a high school gymnasium. Your priorities are skewed. Good day sir. I'm laughing at your comments not a kid going out. Either way you cant lay there and wait for a ref. My kid had another squeezing his trachea, he fought out didn't lay there. I don't agree with choking a kid out. A similar incident happened to my son 2 years ago, he was caught in a front headlock and was unconscious in less than 10 seconds, and woke up in the hospital with no clue why. The ref should always pay close attention and try to be in good position whenever there is a hold applied to the neck area.
Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?
Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Ed Wilson]
#211574
01/13/13 10:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 750
L.Geyer
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 750 |
I wasn't at the bobcat, and I didn't have a dog in this fight. But after I watched this video, It defantly looks like a choke to me. With the front headlock, then turning the corner to put pressure on the neck down and away, cuts off the air, and the match should have probably been stopped for PD before the bottom wrestler even went to it back. The rule book clearly states you can not put pressure or twist the neck or throat.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: L.Geyer]
#211575
01/13/13 11:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411
Ed Wilson
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Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411 |
Leeth (Kearney) vs Lapalia (Blue Springs) 2013 Blue Springs will continue to do what they do as long as the refs let them knee wrenching starts at 1:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoXtn3xKFDg
Did you see that Eckenbacherswartzendruber?
Lawrence Elite Wrestling Club
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: PurpleDad]
#211577
01/13/13 11:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
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Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327 |
Page 87-88 2012-13 Wrestling case book and manual; Section 7 #2 Illegal holds/maneuvers include, but are not limited to: k. holds/manueuvers putting pressure in the throat and/or carotid artery; q. front quarter nelson w/ the chin; y. any hold/maneuver used for punishment; z. any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation; 6. The headlock with an arm encircled at or above the elbow is a legal but potentially dangerous hold/maneuver. Because of the dangers present when this hold/maneuvers used, referees are cautioned to be in a position to observe the hold/maneuver carefully. There are occasions when the arm, which is included, is impaired. It is possible for the arm to be inadvertently moved into a position where it restricts breathing or circulation and is hidden from the referee's view. The face of the defensives wrestler may be forced to tightly into the chest or side of the offensive wrestler and his breathing constricted. The head and shoulder of the defensive wrestler in a legal headlock may be forced together to the extent the shoulder becomes a pressure point on the jugular vein or carotid artery, thus presenting a very dangerous situation that may or may not be obvious to the referee. Finally, the strength of the wrestler applying the headlock may result in twisting, constricting or comp active damage to the neck and present serious problems. The very nature of the legal headlock prevents the defensive wrestler from indicating pain or distress when his opponent is of equal or superior strength. Because there may be no visible signs of distress until the problem becomes so serious the defensive wrestler may have lost consciousness, referees are cautioned to be very alert during this situation so they can prevent a potentially dangerous situation from becoming illegal.
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: PurpleDad]
#211583
01/14/13 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 77
jhayes
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 77 |
He also referred it being called a 3/4 hold in wrestling.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Cokeley]
#211591
01/14/13 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
Rford
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Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169 |
As you know, in these situations, the official needs to be aware of the danger, be in position to see it, and be ready to stop it at the first sign of distress or if its not being used to advance a position. Since all headlocks are potentially dangerous by definition, and since this tournament is full of skilled, strong, young men, the officials need to be underneath, looking at the lock, and making sure it isn't held so long as to result in even a chance of injury. Since it appears the wrestler in this video passed out from lack of blood, the hold was not stopped soon enough. Now, he could have had the flu or been sick. Officials need to stop these holds. And coaches and fans need to applaud that call and not complain.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: Cokeley]
#211593
01/14/13 01:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
Rford
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Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169 |
Page 87-88 2012-13 Wrestling case book and manual; Section 7 #2 Illegal holds/maneuvers include, but are not limited to: k. holds/manueuvers putting pressure in the throat and/or carotid artery; q. front quarter nelson w/ the chin; y. any hold/maneuver used for punishment; z. any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation; 6. The headlock with an arm encircled at or above the elbow is a legal but potentially dangerous hold/maneuver. Because of the dangers present when this hold/maneuvers used, referees are cautioned to be in a position to observe the hold/maneuver carefully. There are occasions when the arm, which is included, is impaired. It is possible for the arm to be inadvertently moved into a position where it restricts breathing or circulation and is hidden from the referee's view. The face of the defensives wrestler may be forced to tightly into the chest or side of the offensive wrestler and his breathing constricted. The head and shoulder of the defensive wrestler in a legal headlock may be forced together to the extent the shoulder becomes a pressure point on the jugular vein or carotid artery, thus presenting a very dangerous situation that may or may not be obvious to the referee. Finally, the strength of the wrestler applying the headlock may result in twisting, constricting or comp active damage to the neck and present serious problems. The very nature of the legal headlock prevents the defensive wrestler from indicating pain or distress when his opponent is of equal or superior strength. Because there may be no visible signs of distress until the problem becomes so serious the defensive wrestler may have lost consciousness, referees are cautioned to be very alert during this situation so they can prevent a potentially dangerous situation from becoming illegal.
I have been regularly, routinely, and loudly chastised by coaches for following this rule and interpretation. Front headlocks are dangerous, if they aren't used within seconds to advance the move they should be stopped. I predict they'll be outlawed eventually, because they pose too great a threat of injury and are not a particularly skilled move. If they banned the figure-four to the head, why not the front headlock? Same pressure, same danger.
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: jhayes]
#211596
01/14/13 01:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 408
John Johnson
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 408 |
The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: John Johnson]
#211601
01/14/13 01:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Hilbillywrassler
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 35 |
I saw a wreatler recently using chinning which I thought had been outlawed years ago. Is there a specific rule outlawing chinning? He was a Missouri kid. Are rules different there?
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: John Johnson]
#211603
01/14/13 01:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,762
Dean Welsh
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Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,762 |
The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!
Excellent post! I agree 'totally' although I do not understand your last sentence.
D. Dean Welsh, Junction City ***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
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Re: Bobcat Classic
[Re: John Johnson]
#211606
01/14/13 02:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327 |
The purpose of the move is very clear, it is designed to take advantage of a hole in the rules (it is legal by what Will posted) and choke a person out. If you can get away with it before the ref can see it is "intentionally" dangerous, I guess in today's 'it all about winning, regardless of how' society, that is all that matters. But, wouldn't this of been a much more interesting match to see these 2 great wrestlers go at it without some cheap move... Michael is way too good to rely on this move. And, after watching this, I do not understand how you Missourians can look down on the head and arm!!!
Actually John, it is not legal. . any hold/maneuver with pressure exhorted over the opponent's mouth, nose, throat or next that restricts breathing or circulation
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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