Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: way2funny]
#213077
02/01/13 01:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 265
rccokeley
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Look at it this way. How low can you really rank Mies? You can't rank him below Elbrader or Leach he's beaten them both. But he has TWO losses to Reese. That's making all the difference right now. If it was only one then Mies would probably be ranked number 2 right now.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: rccokeley]
#213078
02/01/13 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
smokeycabin
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Just some information. Styles make some matchups difficult and there is a lot of information to sort through.
Gardner Edgerton Tournament Round 3 - Ethan Karsten (Platte County) 6-1 won by decision over Reese Cokeley (St James Academy) 2-3 (Dec 6-4)
Bobcat Tournament Quarterfinal - Jake Elbrader (St. Thomas Aquinas) 13-4 won by pin over Ethan Karsten (Platte County) 26-7 (Pin 1:18) (Common out of state wrestler)
Cons. Semi - Jake Elbrader (St. Thomas Aquinas) 13-4 won by pin over Reese Cokeley (St. James Academy) 20-11 (Pin 2:47) (head to head)
Day 1 of Bobcat Champ. Round 2 - Tyler Sharp (Fort Scott) 26-5 won by decision over Reese Cokeley (St. James Academy) 20-11 (Dec 4-2) Quarterfinal - Dakota Leach (Goddard) 17-2 won by major decision over Tyler Sharp (Fort Scott) 26-5 (Maj 10-2)
Platte County Tournament
Semifinal - Reese Cokeley (St. James Academy) 29-16 won by decision over Ethan Karsten (Platte County) 30-9 (Dec 2-0)
All these guys are good wrestlers and Mies is in 4A.
Last edited by smokeycabin; 02/01/13 11:07 AM.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: smokeycabin]
#213079
02/01/13 01:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 265
rccokeley
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Reese beat Karsten at the Platte County Tournament
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: powercat1]
#213083
02/01/13 02:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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Head to head means nothing to Chief, at least it didn't use to, a few years ago my son was ranked BELOW a kid that my son had beaten the only 2 times they wrestled. And since I called him on it he quickly told me that it had to do with common opponets. So I was left feeling that head to head match up really don't matter
Just look at the first page of this thread, where I questioned the fact that Geary was ranked ahead of Butler even though Butler had the better resume, Butler has the better FS/GR resume but I was told that since Geary didn't wrestle FS/GR it didn't matter, Geary had beaten Butler 4-3 in their only head to head in folkstyle, even tho Butler beat Geary pretty handily in FS a few months later. Even FLO,on the national level, had Butler #8 and Geary #15 I feel that Geary got the #1 spot in the pre-season all class simply because he wrestled for Chiefs Renegades at the Wrestling Central Freestyle Duals and Butler choose to wrestle for KCTC. I have given up on the rankings as there is a lot of bias that goes on. But like I said before these are Chiefs rankings and he can do them how ever he wants, I fully expect to get flamed for this post but I really don't care this is how I feel. This is classic. Look back on the All-Class thread on 2/19/10 for the real story. I feel like a first grade teacher having to repeat myself. Hear this..... Head to head is the very first criteria when TWO wrestlers are involved! When a third wrestler or more enters the mix, everything changes. Powercat tried as hard as he could to overlook losses to other wrestlers to benefit his son, Josh Bush from Leavenworth. The bias overcame him and here we are three years later and he cannot grasp the logic. Your take on the Geary/Butler ranking is pathetically false. As I have stated in hundreds of conversations, Will Geary won the only folkstyle match they had ever wrestled. Had that match never happened and the only match was the Freestyle match in May, I would have ranked Butler #1. How easy is that? That's wrestling 101. Nathan was wrestling for KCTC. That's why he wrestled for their team. Why would I have a problem with that? Reece Wright-Conklin also wrestled for them. I ranked him #1. Powercat, I would be glad to make it even clearer for you. Call my cell at 913-484-3624 or introduce yourself at any tournament you see me at.
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: wrestling67]
#213084
02/01/13 02:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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Then technically Reese Cokeley should still be under Elbrader as he did pin him, the only head to head. I understand that wrestlers occasionally have a bad day, get sick, or just off the day of wrestling. Is it possible that this was the case when Reese won against Mies? Address the whole story Mel. Being a former ranker yourself, I'm surprised. Reese is 2-0 vs. Mies. Mies beat Elbrader 14-2. Even with Reese losing to Elbrader, if I am compelled by the two losses to rank Mies below Reese, how in the world can I rank Elbrader above Mies?
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#213087
02/01/13 03:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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Lets try weighing in inconsistency into this equation and then you will come up with your answer.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Tyson Schreiner]
#213089
02/01/13 03:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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Lets try weighing in inconsistency into this equation and then you will come up with your answer. Is that a disguised way to say you have no idea?
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#213090
02/01/13 03:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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Refer back to smokey cabins post and you will see.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Tyson Schreiner]
#213091
02/01/13 03:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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Refer back to smokey cabins post and you will see. That Elbrader beat Cokeley and Karsten. That Cokeley is 1-1 vs. Karsten? How does that incomplete story of 120 tell you anything? Add the rest of the criteria, that Cokeley is 2-0 vs. Mies and Mies beat Elbrader 14-2.
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#213094
02/01/13 03:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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When you come to these dilemmas, as a ranker I would think you just have to use common sense. Look at records, look at consistency, and ponder the styles subject. Some guys just beat some styles. From an outsider looking in on this, it would be odd. This 120 class is tough. I watched Price dominate the 321a no4 who beat the 321a no.1 the same day. And i dont even think he is ranked all class, so it is tough.IMO Gentzler, Mies, Cokeley etc. JMO
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Tyson Schreiner]
#213095
02/01/13 04:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
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When you come to these dilemmas, as a ranker I would think you just have to use common sense. Look at records, look at consistency, and ponder the styles subject. Some guys just beat some styles. From an outsider looking in on this, it would be odd. This 120 class is tough. I watched Price dominate the 321a no4 who beat the 321a no.1 the same day. And i dont even think he is ranked all class, so it is tough.IMO Gentzler, Mies, Cokeley etc. JMO So you rank them... Give it your best shot and explain your logic. Then look at what happened with Price at the BIT and explain that. Reese was injured prior to January but tried to battle through it. He was unable to get proper preparation and he shouldn't have even been on the mat in Gardner. When you are looking at ranking this week you have to look at what most recently happened. Reese has 14 losses,not 17 and he has lost only to Himple, Elbrader and Sharp from KS. All at the Bobcat. Then Sharp ID to him on the backside. On day 2 Himple and Elbrader probably go 130, in fact Himple moved up to 132 the next weekend. This 120 deal is a mess as both of Reese's wins over Mies came on day 1 of a two day event. Works great when you aren't cutting on day 1 but on day 2 it gets a little rough when you are the little guy. There is some common sense for you. Now rank them genious.
Last edited by Cokeley; 02/01/13 04:30 AM.
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Cokeley]
#213097
02/01/13 04:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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Does every kids dad get to call chief and explain that their son is injured or sick before or after a tourney to compensate for tough competition?
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Tyson Schreiner]
#213100
02/01/13 05:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 265
rccokeley
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I don't know why you still post on here. No one listens to you. you literally lost all credibility when you said winning or placing at freestyle/Greco state "doesn't mean a whole lot."
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: rccokeley]
#213101
02/01/13 08:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 166
powercat1
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So what Chief, speaking to you on the phone or in person is going to magically make your skewed logic make sense? I doubt it, your logic didn't make sense then and here, 3 years later and dozens of rankings later, it still makes no sense. 1 head to head victory gives Geary the edge but 2 head to head victories didn't for Josh, yeah that makes perfect sense. Now lets apply your ranking logic to the NFL, even tho the Baltimore Ravens beat New England 2 times this season they lost to Houston, who in turn lost to New England, so using your logic New England is clearly the better team, because once you add that third team in there the head to head match-ups go out the window. Your right it's all crystal clear now.
And as far as your bias, it really showed with this comment: "Butler gets the takedown and Geary rolls across his back costing him an additional two back points. I disagree with the near fall call but Nathan definitely earned the takedown". WATCH THE VIDEO, Geary didn't ROLL across his back, Nathan put him there and held him there for a 2 count. You can clearly see the ref counting it off. It's not to hard for anyone that read that entire post to see who you were really rooting for.
Summertime wrestling, makes wintertime champions
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: powercat1]
#213102
02/01/13 10:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,890
Curtis Chenoweth
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So what Chief, speaking to you on the phone or in person is going to magically make your skewed logic make sense? I doubt it, your logic didn't make sense then and here, 3 years later and dozens of rankings later, it still makes no sense. 1 head to head victory gives Geary the edge but 2 head to head victories didn't for Josh, yeah that makes perfect sense. Now lets apply your ranking logic to the NFL, even tho the Baltimore Ravens beat New England 2 times this season they lost to Houston, who in turn lost to New England, so using your logic New England is clearly the better team, because once you add that third team in there the head to head match-ups go out the window. Your right it's all crystal clear now.
ESPN releases power rankings and had the New England Patriots ranked higher than the Baltimore Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens then beat the New England Patriots and regardless of rankings they are in the Super Bowl. So you could say that the rankings are merely just opinions of a person and have no affect on the outcome of any competition and in turn should offend nobody!
Curtis Chenoweth
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: powercat1]
#213103
02/01/13 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
smokeycabin
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I really hope everyone is healthy coming down the stretch. All the wrestlers have already put their foot on the line for about 2.5 months. It is time to make your own luck the next 4 weekends.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: powercat1]
#213106
02/01/13 11:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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So what Chief, speaking to you on the phone or in person is going to magically make your skewed logic make sense? I doubt it, your logic didn't make sense then and here, 3 years later and dozens of rankings later, it still makes no sense. 1 head to head victory gives Geary the edge but 2 head to head victories didn't for Josh, yeah that makes perfect sense. In front of all on this board you are really trying to compare your son's ranking scenario to Will Geary's? Your son was a 27-11 SQ. His ranking at the time DID NOT include ONLY two wrestlers!!!!! The other wrestlers involved had beaten wrestlers that your son lost to. As I have explained so many times, that one head to head between Geary and Butler involved NO OTHER WRESTLERS. They are not the same scenario and anyone that says they are either has a son involved like you, or flat out can't understand criteria. I feel bad for you...
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#213114
02/01/13 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
way2funny
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Okay i hear everyone agrument but it still does not qualify Cokeley over Leach ranking . they have 4 common opponents and with leach only lossing to one of them and Cokeley lossing to all of them . Leach only havs 3 loss on the year. why does the one match qualify oover all the others.
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: way2funny]
#213115
02/01/13 01:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,474
Chief Renegade
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Okay i hear everyone agrument but it still does not qualify Cokeley over Leach ranking . they have 4 common opponents and with leach only lossing to one of them and Cokeley lossing to all of them . Leach only havs 3 loss on the year. why does the one match qualify oover all the others. In the Leach/Cokeley discussion, you cannot exclude Tyler Mies. If I rank Leach over Cokeley, how could I rank Leach above Mies who has beaten Leach? So looking at head to heads: Cokeley is 2-0 vs. Mies Mies is 1-0 vs. Leach 2. Cokeley 3. Mies 4. Leach Once again if only Leach and Cokeley were being considered then the common advantage would give Leach the edge.
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: 2012-13 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!
[Re: rccokeley]
#213117
02/01/13 01:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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You are correct in your statement, and I do apologize to the wrestling community. It should have been worded "doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot".
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