Shawn,

Except, your average 14U Kansas 8th grade wrestler is NOT wrestling cadets, almost EVER. Lets approach this from the greater good perspective instead of the special few.

Shawn,

You keep switching gears. You first say you are not talking about 8th graders but 9th grade successful cadets being forced to wrestle juniors. Then you bring up 8th grade cadets. To be clear, 8th grade cadets cannot wrestle in the junior division without losing a year of junior eligibility. Also, your example used AA Cadets being forced to wrestle up. If an 8th grade cadet achieved AA status, he would then be a high school wrestler the following year so your reasoning breaks down. They would then be high school vs high school. This whole discussion involves high school wrestlers that avoid their own division to wrestle the kids division. The entire nation is against it. Do you feel lonely out on that limb? As I said earlier, in my opinion the proposal will pass soon and our high school division will be the beneficiary.

I can guarantee this proposal will not pass, EVER. The High School Division will be dropped before this proposal passes.

Let's go a step further... If you're a middle school champ you can't wrestle 12u (even with a good birthday) you have to wrestle 14u. If you have placed at Tulsa and are nationally ranked in 10u, 8u, or 6u you have to wrestle up at least one age division during the USAWKS series. Come on man! This is America let's have small government and let folks choose. The rules/Bilaws are voted on each year stop bitching! It is what it is.....

Any body wanna buy a boat?

lol

What kind of madness is going on here? We are talking about high school wrestlers not being able to wrestle DOWN in the kids division. There are age group kids classes and there is a high school division.

It's embarrassing that every single state in America disagrees with us on this.

Are we having fun yet with this thread?

You have to use age groups - period. There are some 9th graders that are 15 & 16. In a few cases there are some 8th graders that can not wrestle in the 14 & under division. It does happen. They never made 14 year olds wrestle in the 16 & under division back in the day - that was not that long ago. The ultimate decision is up to the parents and the wrestler base on the current rules that have been established. That is the way I see it. 8th grade is the toughest transition for wrestlers - except the transition from high school to college wrestling. It is called attrition.
Every sport starts out with large numbers when the kids are younger. As the level of competition increases the number of participants decreases. FACT
 

at·tri·tion
[uh-trish-uhn] Show IPA

noun
1.
a reduction or decrease in numbers, size, or strength: Our club has had a high rate of attrition because so many members have moved away.

2.
a wearing down or weakening of resistance, especially as a result of continuous pressure or harassment: The enemy surrounded the town and conducted a war of attrition.

3.
a gradual reduction in work force without firing of personnel, as when workers resign or retire and are not replaced.

Tracy,
You got the concept of what I was trying to say.

Chief,
We are talking past each other. I am trying to explain that the situation we have at the state level with 14u and high school division is very similar if not exactly the same as the situation at the national level with the cadet and junior age groups.

1. At the national level a kid is a cadet if he was born in 1997 and/or 1998. Some of those kids are 8th graders and some of those kids are high school freshman.
2. Kids that are in high school and are born in 1997, 1996, 1995, etc are in the are in the junior division.
3. As you can see in both the cadet and junior division the kids that are born in 1997 and in high school can wrestle in the cadet division or the junior division. They have a choice.
4. At Fargo the kids born in 1997 and in high school are cadets. They will wrestle 8th graders that were born in 1997 or 1998.
5. USAW does not have any special rules that limit the cadets that are in high school from wrestling in the cadet age group. They don't care that those cadets have had a year of high school wrestling. They don't care if they placed at state or if the had All Americaned previously at Fargo.

Now for our situation in KS....
1. Our current policy for kids that meet the age requirement to wrestle in the 14U age group and are in high school have the choice to wrestle in the high school division or the 14U age division.
Implementing the bylaw change that you, Will and others would limit the choice of those very small number of kids that placed at high school state and meet the age requirements to wrestled the 14U division.
In my opinion doing this is no different than if USAW implemented a similar rule that made all cadets who are in high school, placed at their state high school tournament, or placed at Fargo the year before wrestle in the Junior division and didn't allow them to wrestle Cadet.
Nobody would support that and I would bet that you and Will would be two of the loudest voices on here saying how stupid it is and how it is limiting kids, etc.
If I am wrong and you support something like that at the national level then I will not argue with you anymore and I will agree to respectively disagree with you.

Shawn Budke

Hey! I should have called Seybold and Pursel to wrestle at high school state again this year! They are only 18.

Except they don't meet one of the criteria....they are no longer in high school.

Now we agree. The high school wrestlers are no longer in the kids divisions.

Chief Renegade
Member

Registered: November, 20 2003
Posts: 8019
Loc: Matside Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
You have to use age groups - period.


Hey! I should have called Seybold and Pursel to wrestle at high school state again this year! They are only 18.
_________________________
Eric Johnson

www.scienceprovesit.com

Acts 4:12
Eric,

I wonder sometimes

2009 Tournament Results
click here for complete results

14 & Under - 100
1st Place - Bo Pursel of Leavenworth Co Wrestling Club
2nd Place - Tommy Williams of STA Wrestling Club
3rd Place - Jace Roy of Paola Wrestling Club
4th Place - Michael Helms of Ark City
5th Place - Jason Perez of Ulysses Tigers
6th Place - Kasey Biddle of Central

14 & Under - 105
1st Place - Aaron Seybold of Crawford County Crew
2nd Place - Wyatt Villers of Ark City
3rd Place - Bryce Dakin of Emporia Kids Wrestling Club
4th Place - Josh Langstaff of Mulvane
5th Place - Calvin Ochs of Hoxie
6th Place - A.J. Hurtado of Greater Gold GC

No high school division that year Sean 14 and 16 and under..

Kevin Seybold

Kevin,

I understand that. But they did not have to wrestle up to 16 - correct.

USA Wrestling - Kansas Kids
State Folkstyle Results
March 24-25, 2007

13 & 14 (born after Aug 31, 1991 and before Sept 1, 1993)
110 1st Ryne Cokeley Paola
2nd Derrick Weller Piper
3rd Symon Seaton Bonner Springs
4th Garrett Jones Winfield
5th Logan Singular Clay County
6th Kasey Lien Salina

Why don't we all be honest about what is really going on here...

There are a group of folks that want the kids season to end earlier and they want to work towards some form of a high school aged Grand State.

You can't get there from here if high schoolers are involved in the kids state series. So the first step was eliminate the 16U division and create a high school division.
The second step was to create a USAWKS sanctioned 6U state.

The following steps have yet to come to fruition. If we can create a bylaw to not allow hs wrestlers to wrestle 14U then it becomes easier to create a separate kids state series that could include the 6U but not high schoolers.
After that it becomes easier to create a USAWKS sponsored grand state for high schoolers a week or so after high school states.

Will if I missed anything please fill in the mistakes.
I only bring this up becauseI can't believe that a few of the people I know and respect feel so strong and react so emotionally to this 14U/HS debate. Also, I find it pretty offensive when I hear these folks making blanket statements about kid ducking competition and running.

I do agree with Beeson.....I don't think this will pass if it is brought to the state body....AGAIN!
Shawn Budke

The rules have not changed. Was that your point Smokey?

Chief
I think you may be the one twisting words and bouncing around now. Still no answer on if you would support a similar national rule for cadets and juniors.

There were 56 KSHSAA State Champs this year in the 4 divisions.

If they all showed up at kids state 42 would not be state champs in the kids division. Same holds true for all the placers. In some cases they would not even make it to state.

Juniors can't wrestle in the Cadet division in 50 states.

High School guys can't wrestle in the Kids division in 48 states.