I'd say about 80% supported dividing 4A into two classes in football. That way the State Championships could be spread around a little more and everyone could have a chance.

Just because today's rules are better, does not mean they are where they should be or that we shouldn't try to make them better. Oklahoma, Missouri, Ohio, Iowa, and others are following the National Rule for a reason. Kansas has not got it figured out or they would be following our system. I would hope that we could evolve into a better system, oh wait, Kansas just changed their stance on Evolution also. Last State in the Union to do so, but we finally got that right. Hopefully we wont have to wait so long to get this changed as well.

Having weighed in during high school and college shoulder to shoulder, 1-2 hrs before competition and coaching under both systems, I believe our current weigh-in rules are the best for our athletes. Yes, I understand that our athletes still use plastics, saunas, etc. Our choice is for athletes to begin making their final cut down to weight at practice the night before competition and making weight that morning, or showing up for school the morning of competition and cutting weight during the school day for the weigh in that night. I do believe cutting weight during the school day does negatively impact not only academic performance but also opens the window for school staff to frown upon our sport.
The down side is we don't like it when we hear that some schools don't follow the weigh in rules and I realize shoulder to shoulder weigh in's would solve that. The fact that we do weigh in shoulder to shoulder at regionals and state helps make that issue more palatable. I strongly believe that academically we have it right for our student-athletes.

I wrestled in Mo. and have had 4 sons wrestle in Ks. (high school & College) I agree that weight cutting during the school day is bad for all of the reasons stated above and more.

The solution to all of this is simple and would eliminate weight cutting as we now know it. Matside weigh-ins before each bout. with the technology that we have (scales etc.) there is absolutely no reason not to.

Im still amazed Kansas is doing morning weigh-ins on duals. Are there any other states still doing this? I remember my days of morning weigh-ins in Kansas. You cut big weight, then weigh in the morning, then you gorge and end up being 6-7lbs heavier at match time. I think it promotes bigger cuts, but wrestlers are fresher at match time.

My son wrestles in Indiana and we do weigh ins one hour before duals and one to two hours before tournaments with the referee on site. This adds another question: Who is doing the skin checks? Are the referee's making the kids strip prior to the match or is the AD checking? I think its a better situation for the refs to do skin checks rather than ADs. Referees at least have a little training. I can also see some cheating on this by ADS.

Which also brings up another point. I remember a prominent Kansas wrestling program 20 years ago that got busted cheating with their AD weighing their team in? So yes more cheating opportunities are available. Dont say it cant happen.

Also you have the variability in scales. How many schools have that light scale even though certified. Its only fair if the kids weigh in the same scale?

How does Kansas get away with morning weigh ins for duals or even offsite weigh ins?

To answer one of your questions: Referees do skin checks.

I strongly don't believe we are doing this for academic reasons. The kids will be pulling just as much on Wed instead of Thursday. Either way, they are not thinking of Academics and are thinking of pulling weight.

How many studs can get beat on the first day of competition when they have to make +1 that night compared to the second day when a 106 pounder can weigh up to 126? You(Coaches) are encouraging weight pulling and hiding behind academics. Be honest, at least with yourself.

Matside weigh-ins before each bout...

Sorry you don't believe me Beeson, but I do think it has academic repercussions. Not trying to hide behind it. In the old days I along with all my teammates cut weight when we weighed in right before competitions. So, weighing in before competitions does not stop wrestlers from cutting weight. If a wrestler is cutting an unhealthy amount of weight it will catch up to him. Good coaches talk with their athletes about what amount of weight is reasonable to cut.
Tonight we wrestle Salina South at Campus at 6pm. If we weighed in at 5pm what time does Salina South have to leave school. If they have to leave school early for shoulder to shoulder weigh in and they have to do that 4-5 times a year does that affect their academics?
We are not afraid of making weight before the competition. In fact, we wrestled in a 2 day tournament in Oklahoma this weekend and had to make weight both Fri and Sat mornings (no Friday evening weigh in allowed). Every one of our wrestlers wrestled the same weight during the weekend shoulder to shoulder 2 hour before competition weigh as they do during the morning weigh-ins before evening dual competitions.
A compromise to me would be to allow morning weigh-ins for mid week competitions and have shoulder to shoulder at all tournament weekend competitions.

From my experiences morning weigh ins DO promote bigger weight cuts! I know I cut an unhealthy amount of weight because I knew I could get "healthy" in the 12 hours until dual meet time. I have also witnessed the same from others in the last 25 years I have been around it.

Tournaments were totally different. I know that I was a completely different wrestler for duals than for tournaments because of the rehydration period or lack of for tournaments.

The academic reason is without a doubt hogwash. The extreme weight cutters don't start the dehydration process the day of the meet....it is a several day process with the last day being the most extreme. Therefore kids are not focused on school for several days.

I would totally support matside weighins.

Maybe someone should start getting the ball rolling on trying to change it. I think a very good point that can be made is by doing a 5pm weigh-in it will help manage weight. The better weight management the better the classroom and mat performance is going to be. It can reduces forms of bulimia being practiced. I know the hardest part of cutting weight really was not getting the weight down but keeping it under control with self control.

Just so everyone wont think I am just stirring the pot, I am contacting our AD about this. I have spoke with my Head High School Coach Greg Buckbee, who is 100% in agreeance with me. Getting on the talk forum is just another way to get it talked about. Although not everyone believes it, there are several Principals and AD's that get on this site and check it out. With enough discussion, they may see a need and help the cause.

I really don't think it is that big of an issue. Most teams are wrestling another dual or tournament the next day or the day after so most kids are smart enough not to put on to much weight to have to work off in that short amount of time.

"plastics , boiler rooms, saunas, no water for you kid, be a man, skipping class to run,spitting in a cup during class, wearing plastics to class and to bed , etc."

Probably kids are still doing these things, but kids better NOT be doing these under the supervision or with the blessings of school personnel.

If kids are resorting to these methods to get down and stay down it means the school probably cheated on the hydration testing at alpha weigh-in and certification. . .which means those schools will probably cheat and abuse any system that is put into place.

Schools would cheat? AD's would cheat?

You are 100% correct. There is no way around weighing in 1 hour before the match. Your performance will prove that.

I don't believe the weigh in deal is that big of a problem either way although it would be nice to weigh in right with your opponent at duals. It would probably add some mind games in some cases. There is no way this should be implemented in Tourneys, they already get drug out to long in some cases. I think the biggest change that could be made is implementing riding time just like in college. It would promote better wrestling from top and bottom and lets face it the Refs have no idea or better I say way varying opinions on what is deemed stalling in top or bottom position. This is deemed a judgment call and can very easily dictate a close match. Riding time aligns with college and prepares those who are good enough to go on.

Why All of a sudden is this a big deal?

From the dawn of time every wrestler pulls weight. It's part of the sport. 1-10lbs, is pulling. Who cares. You have to pick your battles. If a football player comes in at 220 and continues to loose weight in the wrestling room, is he pulling or just working hard?

Coaches build the best team they can for the season. Which means if you have 3 quality kids at one weight, then 1 goes up, 1 goes down, and the other remains at the weight.


I say leave it up to Kansas and ALL the coaches to figure it out. Not a parent/fan of the sport.

Mat side weigh ins will only hurt our sport and the team. Remember it's HS, not college. These are kids.

"Schools would cheat? AD's would cheat?"

I can say with 99.9% certainty that NONE that I am associated with "out here" do. . .and I would say the vast majority across the State don't. However, there are always "outliers."

Several points:

These are kids- Well then they should not be pulling vast amounts of weight.

Remember it is High School not College- The Majority of Ranked Wrestlers will be wrestling in College in the next two years. They should be prepared.

Remember it is High School not College- 90% of High School kids across the country are following these rules. Why shouldn't Kansas?

If a Football player blah blah blah 220...that's not who we are talking about. We are talking about 106 lb wrestlers weighing 125 the second day of State. They are just kids, and 20 lbs for a 106 wrestler is unhealthy.

One other thing to keep in mind. I am ALMOST certain that when he member state high school associations of the NFHS vote on rules changes to the sport of wrestling that KSHSAA does NOT get a vote because they do not follow all of the NFHS rules for weigh-ins. I heard this when I first got to Kansas and was discussing this. Not sure if it is entirely accurate but someone else might know more than I.

Not that wrestling is making any huge rules changes at the HS level because they aren't.