Best of luck to figuring out this jigsaw puzzle!!! I don't think there is a "one solution fixes all" unfortunately, and no matter how you cut it will probably leave someone out in the cold so to speak. I do know we are here to wrestle whoever, whenever, and wherever. The tougher they are, the better we get!! DISTRICT 5 FOREVER!!!!!

The numbers that I used came from the board and they can be confusing but they are correct. If memory serves me correct (slept a lot since I moved past that portion of the formula) you had to take into account the HS division and that they only wrestled Districts, not Subs. If you want a copy of the maps they used with numbers by county I can email them to you or you can contact a board member.

The point made by Daniel DRW has been that the realignment did little to nothing for any numbers shifting and leaves one to ask why the change then.

Daniel, I know the state board just emailed clubs and asked what county they were HQ'd in too.... I actually looked up the zip codes and counties they were in. A few were goofy like the Lawrence club with a Johnson county mailing address or the one K.C. club that had a Missouri side mailing address. It would be of my opinion that any formula not using the totals for 14 and under SUB numbers for D3 and D4 would be inappropriate as they make for a thinning of the herd in those districts. If we throw in the high school figures from district for D3 and D4 then D3 is too big at 782 and D4 is 721.

Would appear Saline County will be next on the bubble for being moved into D4?....or Reno/Kingman/Harper remain D4 and McPherson shifts into D2. I guess we can assume the same logic people have posted will be followed by posters themselves that if they don't like being in D4 travel times then they will have to move into Wichita or KC itself. I understand the board can't make everybody happy but it is interesting Reno is ducking out of D4 while shoving Cloud and Ottawa in.... Good luck Daniel as Trackwrestling head count figures for what you posted the state used don't quite match up with each other even for D1 and D2. I've burned enough time on this subject for a message board that will have no impact on our particular club or what the state does anyway so I'm not going any further.

Just like others organizations, the big groups get what they want and the little fish have to pay. Why else wouldn't Reno and saline county be moved to district 4 and leave Ottawa and Cloud in district 3. Because they have people on the board or in the ears of people on the board. They don't want to travel, so make someone else do it.

I don't believe it has anything to do with big groups but there are advantages to having people on the board of any organization. Every county has an opportunity to have people on the board if they have people willing to give of their time.

I'm from district 4 are boys and girls have no problems with traveling.we have no problems hunting or looking for competition. Just makes the road to state easier for us. But then again not everyone is willing to travel

Traveling for some of us is not a big deal in the south west corner

Traveling is not the for most of us. The problem is the method in which this is done.

This issue will never be solved correctly.I went back and looked at a few clubs that switched districts for the 2015 season and compared numbers of kids that signed up for qualifying series in 2014(before the move) and 2016(districts held in Goodland).

team 2014 entries 2016 entries
Hutch 41 29
Team Lightning 20 11
Smith County 21 14
Chapparal 10 8
Osborne 10 6
Russell 16 13
Jr. Panthers 19 0

From these 7 teams, there were 137 wrestlers who were moved into district 4, of those 137 wrestlers, it only accounted for 81 additional wrestlers in district 4. What is worse about this, is that the move of the district lines cost 56 wrestlers the opportunity to attend the qualifying series. Any team that is moved to district 4 will most likely see the same results in their wrestler count for the qualifying series.

One thing that could possibly help with district 4 wrestler count is to lessen the burden on the parents. I think that if we eliminate sub districts, it will help with the wrestler count at districts. A parent may be more likely to sign a kid up for districts knowing they only have to drive 4 hours one weekend rather than 2 weekends to qualify for state.

The districts will never be "fair." District 1 will never have to drive as far as district 4, and district 4 will never have as many wrestlers as district 1. District 1 is growing, and you will never be able to add enough teams to district 4 to be able to get the numbers even in a manor that doesn't hurt the sport. I don't know from experience in the other districts, but how often do kids not sign up for districts because there is 5 more wrestlers in their brackets than in the same bracket in district 4?

We need to quit worrying about "fair" and do what is best to grow the numbers involved in the sport.

It would seem to me that having one less qualifier in D4 is more important than any other district. Not sure why they chose to keep Subs.

As listed before, there really is not a good facility to host a single tournament. We have three real good places. Dodge City at the casino, Hays at Gross Memorial, and Garden City High School. Hays is the most central except getting into Gross Memorial at this time is almost impossible because of the college basketball schedule. Garden and Dodge would not be central. So that is the main reason

What about Barton County CC? They have started a wrestling program and might be glad to get kids on campus. Last year's 4 hour and then 4 1/2 hour trips back to back weekends was tough.

Depending on the ability to get the second gym at barton, districts can be held there. It has been there in the past. Great Bend High School has the space for enough mats and seats. The downside at the high school is the football field seperates the gyms.

First things first you can not go by numbers out of dist 4 districts because those teams already went through subdistrics so of course the numbers are going to be less in district. I also think that the jr Panther club doesn't exist any more. The other thing is that there really isn't any place in district 4 to hold a tournament of that size without breaking the bank. We don't have any big venue to hold a huge tournament except for dodge and hays. I don't understand why all the other districts want to end subs anyway. If you do away with subs there is going to be another tournament anyway. When you live in district 4 you just get use to driving. This is basically every weekend that you want to wrestle. That is just what we do out here. I don't no the answer about getting numbers out but I don't think eliminating subs is the answer either.

There is only seats in one gym at bcc and the seating in that gym is very small it doesn't hold very many people. Great bend holds a great tournament but I still think that it is to small

The only problem with the second gym at Barton is that there is no seating on the gym floor. There is an walkway at the top though.

When you live in district 4 you just get use to driving. This is basically every weekend that you want to wrestle. That is just what we do out here. [/quote]

Here is the problem. Some of us didn't want to be in district 4. You might be used to the travel and like it, but others don't. Even those that have been in district 4 for a while don't like to travel. I guarantee that making district 4 bigger only hurts the state numbers at district time.

I've never seen the second gym at BCCC, but the main one holds 2-3 times more people than Goodland does. There was about 8 rows of stadium seats around the mats there last year. They were way undersized for the district tourney.

IF your going that rout Garden City Juco has twice the seating as Barton and the Second gym has 1100 seats in it. The only problem is getting access to these gyms. With state budget cuts, they are getting very hard to get into because they are worried about damage to the gym floors.

Love how possible district venues (with no subs) are put on the table without considerations for capacity let alone the likes of scheduling difficulty and dollar costs of getting into the likes of a Gross (Hays) or United (Dodge) facility. However, since he brought it up. I think Sekavec should check into GCCC for a district hosting and D4 could actually consider cutting out subs. Sounds like it might be a great venue if it could be arranged on the cheap...and I'm sure Greater Gold is just chomping at the bit ready to host. Those proposing venues also means someone has to step up and host which I think a couple might be forgetting on this board that some don't want the headache that comes with hosting. One thing I haven't seen thrown out (and I'm green here) is forcing a co-host of say the top six clubs attending? Each club runs a mat... Takes some weight off the local club's resources and sharing the burden may help some clubs be more willing to bring the tournament to the likes of BCCC or GCCC. Maybe that's too much to ask...

Still think GCHS wouldn't quite have enough seating capacity to host a single district (no subs) head count because of your lower bleachers being pulled back to make room for score tables and foot traffic. It was a great venue for the subs though and well ran. Liberal is in the same boat as Pratt. A third gym that is a separated facility (only about 50 yards) that could easily host the head counts and yet at an extreme geographical location in the district. For those unfamiliar with D4, the story for D4 to have a single district qualifier is about SEATING capacity in a halfway centralized location that is necessary to eliminate having a sub qualifier.

Those clubs in the extremes like an Atwood traveling to Pratt or a Beloit/Concordia going to Liberal might actually prefer a single district qualifier but you will still have some unhappy campers from the opposite ends having to travel five hours each way. Thinking Sekavec should work on that GCCC idea for a single district event...