ksfanincarolina and Coach Ulmer,

There are tons of kids from 4A and 3A schools that could have gone DI and choosen to go to a lower class, for a number of different reasons. Some of them wanted immediate varsity mat time, rather than wait 3 years to see that. Others don't like the DI schools in this area. There are tons of reasons why. But I cite as examples
Dustin Tovar - Abilene
Shaun Silvis - Augusta 2X DII national champion
The Bakers - Hoxie
Bryce Bahe - Goodland

Heck look at Danny Grater, in all likely hood he will be a 3 time state champion after this year. He could be a competitor in D-1 after a red shirt year and maybe 1 more, but he's going to Ft Hays, and I promise you its not because hes not D-1 material.

These are just a tiny tiny amount of names I could have added on there. Having a slightly higher number of D-1 athletes is not an indication of how tough a class is, all it means is that athletes made a different choice. And once again people have made a false arguement, only pointing out the state champions as a basis for toughest class. What about the other 15 competitors that were in that bracket? What good does it do to have a state champion who beat kids with 15-20 loses on the season on their way to the finals. The biggest arguement here is which class is toughest overall? Judging that by how its competitors CHOOSE to go to college is not a good way to do it.

I'm going mixed on this one. The big classes (5A-6A) probably consistently put out the top notch D-1 kids. I think it's a statistical factor of larger pool of kids to choose from. This is supported by the earlier post on the number of kids from 6A and 5A wrestling Division 1. Also want to mention some of the kids are very succesful. See Bunch (ranked #1 currently), and Johnston.

Still haven't seen the post how many 1-4A kids wreslting D-1. Maybe they have a big list too.

On the other side, its a lot tougher to win state out of a 64 team pool than a 32 team pool. Overall the level of wrestling between classes is similar. You have to admit there is a lot of interclass wrestling. So I'm saying it's easier to win a 32 team pool than 64.

Also comment that possibly Norton may be the best team in state this year which is impressive.

But I think if you look over the years the 5a and 6A team state champions would have more depth so would probably beat the lower class champions.

I think some of this is obvious. Doesn't it make since that a kid from some little rural school with 200 kids in the whole school generally feels more comfortable transitioning through some place like Colby, Hays or similiar colleges in other states and some one from a place like Lawrence
Free-State with 1500 kids in school is just fine going to a Stanford or some other large campus and transition right in. Not every decision regarding college is based upon wrestling.

Tiger-75 & Nigel

Don't get me wrong! I am very proud of my alma mater as I am very proud of my roots in that region. The strength of character of those people and their kids is second to none in Kansas. We all know that often the strength of ones character is the difference between a successful wrestler and one who is not.

I would assure you that many students decide against Div. I schools for many reasons, and often wisely. I am an advocate of small colleges and always have been, my roots go deep into small college wrestling.

But I have coached in the big schools. There are drawbacks for someone attending schools of that size in metropolitan areas, but athleticism is not one and neither is accessibility to athletic opportunity. Those who choose to take advantage of their own abilities and the facilities in those geographic areas can reach Div. I proportions.

Gary Ulmer

Excuse me but Murray from Nebraska took 2nd last year and he is a stud plus if you look on Luedke might be seen in the future after he is finished with Colby and Earl Jones when he leaves Labette

That's true, Murray DID take 2nd last year. Silly me, we've been wrong all along. 4A/321A really IS harder.

Oh wait, Roberson took 1st. Where did he go to school?....................

Note: this isn't taking anything away from Murray. To tell you the truth, I don't really think college success has much to do with it, but you all know where I stand on this one.

This topic has been and always will be argued on and on. A avid believer in the thought that 4A was the toughest. I think the best way is to say "which classification is the most evenly competed". Back in the day when is seemed common place for a 5A or 6A team title to won with 200 plus points and a 4A title could be won with under 100 points (pre 6 place days) it is obvious where the paridy lies. Yes it seems the big D-1 one guys come from the big schools but the "teams" they were apart of could not compete with the great 4A and under teams of the same time period. When the word toughest is argued we sometimes forget about that kid who never won a state title or even placed, but yet never got majored. And there a ton of those small town kids out there that fit that bill. I would like to see the statistics of State Tourney match scores as far as number of wins by falls, t-falls, majors, and decisions by class to throw into the stats...

I remember being from Ark City and wrestling JV going to some 123A teams and wrestling their varsity teams!

tcsnkc brings up parity. one of the things that I noticed at the coliseum this weekend was that in the first round on Friday, 4a was considerably behind 5a and 6a because there were fewer short matches. after that, everything kinda evened out, indicating to me that the upper and lower ends of the brackets were more closely matched in 4a. 4a seemed to have some really good guys, like Taplin and Grater, but you really can't take much away from guys like Baldridge either. top to top, probably we have reached an equilibrium. top to bottom, I think 4a is still tougher.