I know, I'm old school but what do you call the head-and-arm? When I was in high school back in the mid 90's, we called it an Olympic or a Manhattan!

Trash.

Uh.....well I guess you just call it a head-and-arm. I usually don't gas out, don't know why, so I like to throw head-and-arm anyway. I know it can screw you up but I just love to hear the breath bein knocked outta someone.

If you're going to throw something like that, chances are you're not good enough to do it because if you were good, you wouldn't think about it in the first place.

True.

look i'm a freshman ok, sorry if i'm not as good as you guys but i do what i can. and i've never wrestled before this year.

This is important. Bump.

Rice, quit apologizing for being a freshman and listen to the advice of others that know what they are talking about. Against any opponent that is any good your head-and-arm is not going to work. If you want to get better then stop using it and work on setting up shots to get takedowns. A good set up combined with a good shot will usually work for you. But obviously some guys will still be able to prevent your takedown and that is why you drill re-shots.

And I agree with Jhris, the move is called TRASH.

i got pinned in a head and arm twice my first year of wrestling and its never worked on me again. and i'm not even good. so i wouldnt bother with it. unless your goal in life is to pin really crappy kids in less then 20 seconds...which if you dont suck, you can do with out the head and arm.

Don't get me wrong, I don't spend much time on our "headlock," but if done right it can work. Anyone ever see Deshazer wrestle???

The funny thing is that when it works, everyone says they were "caught." Like any move, it's all in the set up. If you walk in and try the fatboy "give me your head, please" approach it won't work. If you rearrange the guy's head for a few seconds and get hips through, there's a good chance. One of my best wrestling buddies from Manhattan used it all the time, even in college. We used to make fun of Bammes for having the most pins with the crappiest move. Still, it worked for him.

I don't like to see it from anyone that's not experienced, but let's be honest a "Tristan" style headthrow is sweeeeet. I think we may even change the name to the Tristan or Deshazer. Of course, he also has about 50 other moves he hits unbelievably.

He only does that when people give it to him. It's just one of the many moves in his arsenal. It seems like he would do it if the guy was bad enough and gave it to him, or if the guy was good enough and he wanted to make him look like a fool. On that note, this state trophy is really sweet, Jilka. Maybe sometime you could come check it out. Not Moses though, he didn't want to bother with the beautiful art.

during usa this year thats the only move i saw deshazer hit off of his feet was the headlock

It seems that John Smith had a "go to" move that everyone knew was coming!

Randy:

We called it the Olympic too.

Also, it is massive junk.

We had a wrestler this year that always defaulted to this "move", after watching him get beat over and over again. I pulled him to the side and told him that I was going to bring a pellet rifle to matches from now on, and every time I saw him try that move I was going to shoot him in the buttocks. I explained how this move kept him from winning more times than it won for him. Our coaches used to call it the faglet, ( I think, because if you miss it you are fagged) The young man went back out the rest of that tournament and did not use it, and thought about setting up shots, he got third that tournament and 1st in a later tournament. (Both JV). It be came a joke between us.

Great story!

My thoughts:

It's not the 'move' that's suspect, it's the user. When executed correctly at the proper time (and there are times when it is tactically called for other than the last desperate moments of a match) it is devastating. If you have a kid who's top heavy, leaining forward on his toes, elbows out and head down, than fire away - you'll teach him how to be a better wrestler when you pin him.

If not, it's like trying to hammer a nail with a pair of pliers...it'll work sometimes, but more often than not you wind up hurting yourself.

General Observations - (NO PROGRAMS ARE INTENDED FOR DISCRIMINATION)

- It's taught incorrectly for incorrect reasons at Jr Hi and Kid level and, perhaps, at some HS

- It's 'enabled' for incorrect reasons at Jr Hi and Kid level (and probably at some HS).

- I estimate 90% of headlocks are 'forced' at HS level, meaning they aren't set up, they aren't tactically called for, or they are incorrectly applied.

- The argument that users wind up with pins is irrelevant if the mentor or coach is trying to develop the total wrestler. The Head and Arm or 'Standing Headlock' is simply another tool, not the only tool, in the toolbox. I counsel my wrestlers after the match, even if they win, about the choice of moves, series, etc. Even if the win, I am very critical an incorrect application or sequence as it would lose to a 'better' opponent.

Nice thread.

Tim Shea
Asst Coach Spring Hill

I think that you just explain why it's such a bad move. It's forced nearly everytime by people who go out trying to set it up the entire match. If you waste time doing this, you're only tiring yourself more, which will make the person harder to throw.

Billy,
I don't know for sure where to see this trophy. I don't recall a Billy McJackson on any roster. Seriously, it was an earned trophy, not a lost one. Goddard just didn't have the point earners that Manhattan had. We had a good tournament, but the best team came out on top that weekend. State doesn't allow for could haves or would haves. Now go easy, the trophy is now in S.T.A.

Back to the headlock debate. I'm in no way saying it's a great move, but even great wrestlers can get hit in it. There's a time and place for everything... except soccer.

I wasn't on the roster, but I have my connections.