Wrestling Talk Forums supported
USA Wrestling-Kansas KWCA Wrestling Talk Forums supported & maintained by USA Wrestling-Kansas USAW USA Wrestling-Kansas 
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Weishaar got screwed #42060 03/04/03 12:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12
M
Marty Wright Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12
Stalling is an art. Sometimes you have to be a good wrestler for a long time to learn how to look like you are doing something when you are not doing anything!

I am impressed with your memory. I saw Richard (also my first cousin)last weekend in Wichita, and I realized how much I have forgotten about my high school days. For you to remember me 25 years later is awesome!

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42061 03/04/03 02:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
W
Westfahl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
You were easy to remember as were all those kids. We had a lot of fun traveling around tourneys in those days because we went to a lot of the same places, Goddard, Regionals and State so we saw a lot of you.... and you guys were good that makes it easier too lol.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42062 03/04/03 02:45 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
After watching the match, i cannot believe that a stalling call was called. First Weishaar had Straits leg and then tripped him. When he tripped him, he fell halfway out of the circle and then began to crawl and thats when the stalling was called. I don't get to see alot of wrestling, but from what i do know, that was a bad call.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42063 03/04/03 06:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 120
kahuna Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 120
I most definitely believe that the stalling call which ultimately decided the Victor in the 4A 189 lb. Quarterfinal match between defending 2X State Champ Jacob Strait from Concordia vs Jake Weishaar, Atchison was likely one of the most absolutely terrible calls I have witnessed in the 20+ years I've been associated with this sport. Not only was it one of the worst calls I've seen there were 2 other instances of questionable judgement which occured in this match. I have viewed this match on tape repeatedly and am in disbelief of how the match was Officiated. I would be absolutely glad to share this taping with anyone who wishes to challenge to the contrary. Right off the bat in this match it seemed as though a tone was set : as the first point which occured was assuredly questionable resulting in a penalty point awarded from a wrestler mule kicking out of a single leg attempt by the other. The wrestler who was penalized started the kick at the edge of the inner ring circle and in kicking out and stepping away from the takedown attempt did in fact have one foot step over the outer circle edge and quickly turned right back toward his opponent without actually fleeing the mat which was the call. That IS a FACT. It is on tape. At the end of Regulation with the score tied, it was quite clear that the defending 2X State Champ was fatigued as was the other wrestler. It is clearly on the tape how eye contact was made from the young official and Concordia coach Doug Moore who was seeking injury time which was granted. The injury time was close to 1 and 1/2 minutes. I honestly am not for sure the nature of the injury. But I am sure that a rest period was much welcomed in a match of such signifigance. I might also add that Coach Moore was not only on the edge of the Mat but inside the wrestling circle several times during the match and many times not for giving instructions to his wrestler but to let the Ref know the way he saw things. This also can be seen on the tape. And I was both amazed and appalled at how the match was decided.
Is it not known by wrestlers that in 2nd period Overtime and you are the top wrestler your objective is first and foremost to keep the bottom wrestler from escaping or reversing and that those things are your goal as the bottom man ? So you would most assuredly not want to let the bottom man escape in this overtime scenario, right ? And exactly how long is this period in that there was one restart and that upon the second with Strait attempting to escape and evade to outer edge of the mat resulting in the wrestlers hitting the mat from standing it was (within 2 1/2 seconds)** that the STALL call which DETERMINED the WINNER happened. Has anyone who wrestled not released a bottom man long enough to determine what his next movement would be so as you could see if he would turn towards you and you would gather him up in cradle or stick your head in ribs or such. I don't know what Weishaar intentions were as that is clearly speculation but it was doubtedly a stall and **I'm sorry but a STALL call within 2 secs of hitting the mat. ** ??? The tape can allow you to see what you think as I honestly thought that the call would be on Strait as the call against Weishaar earlier went. (But really), unless it is a blatant NO BRAINER call, ..this match should have been determined by the WRESTLERS THEMSELVES. I also hope that this tape could serve as a training tool for officials so a positive light can come from these circumstances. Officials are human and not free of mistakes and there were a few young officials that seemed to be a little overzealous in becoming central to matches at times. I have worked both Football and Wrestling and was taught by the seasoned refs I worked with that a good ref merely blends in rather than sticks out. Your job is to remain calm and neutral in judgement without outside influence and call the action as it occurs. There is no need to become bigger than the match or game. I was thankful for this advice as these were Refs who many were 20+ years my senior and had been asked repeatedly over years to work State Events. .. Kevin Calhoon

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42064 03/04/03 06:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Not to be rude to anyone who has posted their views on this subject but ther eare a few things to say. At this point it makes no difference what your opinion of that match is becuase it is over and done with and there is no way to change it. I feel like I was "screwed" a few times when I wrestled in high school but im over it now and im sure in time Jake will be over it too. As for the tape I could agree it could be a good teaching tool as far as showing other officials what could be the right or wrong call. However it will not provide any change in the results. I think this is a topic that really should be dropped becuase it is not helping either of the two wrestlers involved.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Weishaar got screwed #42065 03/04/03 08:58 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
MY NAME IS BJ WHITE I AM THE BROTHER OF JAKE WEISHAAR. I SAW THE MATCH AND IT WAS A GOOD ONE. I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW NIGEL THAT MY BROTHER IS NOT HERE CRYING OVER THAT MATCH ANYONE WHO WATCHED THE MATCH KNOWS WHO WON. BUT IT HURT FOR ME TO WATCH MY BROTHER TWO WEEKENDS IN A ROW LOSE TWO MATCHES THAT WERE DECIDED ON BY THE REF AND NOT THE WRESTLERS. ONCE FOR THROWING A FRONT HEADLOCK WHICH HE USED ALL YEAR AND THEN A STALLNG CALL. MY BROTHER POURED HIS HEART INTO WRESTLING AS MOST WRESTLERS DO. WE ALL KNOW JAKE STRAIT HAD HIS HAND RAISED AT THE END OF THE MATCH BUT FOR HIM TO SAY THAT HE WON THE MATCH WELL GOOD FOR HIM. THE BIG THING FOR WEISHAAR WAS NOT LOSING THE MATCH IT WAS HAVING IT TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM. IT WAS LIKE SOMEONE RIPPED HIS HEART OUT AND LAUGHED AT HIM. TO STRAIT GOOD LUCK AT NATIONALS. TO WEISHAAR WE LOVE YA BRO. WE KNOW WHO THE ANIMAL IS...................

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42066 03/04/03 06:07 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Quote:
Originally posted by Westfahl:
Trying to flee the mat isn't a violation. I saw that match and I think he got called for stalling because of cumulative moves to the same leg and no attempt to move up or take his opponent to the mat. The ref that called that match is one of the best young officials in the state and had an impressive state tourney and that call was a gutsy one but in my view, a good one. I at first thought it was called on Strait and I would have thought and did think at the time that it should have been the other way around. He didn't get jammed though it is just one of those things, he tried to get rid of some time by staying down low on the leg and that is stalling. It happens and sometimes it doesnt get called but this time a good young official did his job. Sometimes thats not popular with everyone though.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42067 03/04/03 06:11 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Mr. Westfal, I agree with you totally, it was a gut wrenching call by that young man, but the right call. As you can see by the posts, your view is different depending on which bull is getting gored. He is a fine official and we all know we need more of them.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42068 03/04/03 10:55 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I have a headache from all those capital letters. You do realize it's the equivalent of yelling in internet etiquette.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42069 03/05/03 12:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
W
Westfahl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
He is a good official and I have refrained from using his name but he did our tourney at Basehor which I help run and I was very impressed with him. I liked him even more at state and he is going to do the metro classic next week. It is lonely sometimes and Lord knows I have chewed my share of officals (which in retrospect sometimes I am not very proud of) but it takes guts to make a call sometimes and at least 50% of the people there aren't going to like those tough calls but thats what they pay them all those millions of bucks for. We got to have more like him in this state, and we have to look over the calls we don't like sometimes and see the big picture. I wasn't very good at that sometimes and I know how tough it can be on either side of that deal.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42070 03/05/03 02:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
To BJ White I beleive that is you Matt? please don't think that I thought your brother was crying at home or anything like that. My previous post was just to tell everyone that there is no use complaining about that call becuase it is over. I simply said that Jake will get over his disappointment in time. Everyone here dispite their opinion have done nothing but discredit Jacob and imply that there is no way he should have won. Ultimatly the person with their hand raised at the end is the only true champion. One last thing that I teach all my kids in our wrestling program "you should never let the match be close enough that the referee has the chance to decide it"


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Weishaar got screwed #42071 03/05/03 02:46 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Nigel, Jake has two older brothers and the one that wrote that earlier is BJ, not matt.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42072 03/05/03 02:47 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
thats not matt...its his oldest brother

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42073 03/05/03 03:20 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Greatwhitepele is a smart person

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42074 03/05/03 03:57 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
smart...but not as cool as keith, as i have two wimpy acl's, while he has only one wimpy acl and a super cool hamstring tendon for his trick knee


(I didn't see u posted it first)

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42075 03/05/03 04:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 120
kahuna Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 120
What I can't seem to understand is how Westphahl feels compelled to defend such an absolute terribly officiated match if he is indeed such a guru of this sport. It was not just the end call but several. Perhaps you should read the entirety of my post as the facts are there and the tape will no doubt prove it. I have no problem in identifying myself because I know the facts will speak for themself. I would like to know how you would feel if this was your wrestler you were coaching or son who basically had the match taken out of his hands. Just because someone is a 2 time State Champ or has Doug Moore for his Coach does not entitle a different set of rules. THis young man was not taught any better a life lesson by a tainted title. He should not have needed the help that he was so afforded but rather a fairly called match. A returning Champ does not mean you are automatically THE CHAMP and this match was an INJUSTICE! period. Perhaps we should have a gathering of both Coaches and Officials and view this match and use both the rewinds and slow motion for those of you that could not see in real time. I know that the outcome cannot be changed but I refuse to lay down and let those of you say nothing happened and what an outstanding call the official ( I believe Corey Scott, plz do correct me if I'm wrong here) made to decide this match. Within 14 seconds and 2 starts of second period of OT match, a very controversial call indeed to make /not courageous but questionable judgement to make. The thing to probably do is to provide the KSHSAA this tape so this kind of thing doesn't have to happen again.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42076 03/05/03 05:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
W
Westfahl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
I am certainly not a guru of the sport that is just the way I saw it. I am not emotionally involved in it and if I was maybe I would see a close call a different way than I do. It is just the way I saw it and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I post a lot on here because I enjoy the debate and I do love wrestling but I don't know everything and have made a lot of mistakes in my life and saw a lot of things that others certainly dissagreed with and I respect their right to do that. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them though nor you with me. If that is what you think then more power to you, you know what you saw and you have your opinion. Thats ok too.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42077 03/05/03 05:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
W
Westfahl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 990
I have lost a few of those calls by the way and I do know exactly, precisely how it feels to do that about a thousand times over.

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42078 03/05/03 05:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 59
S
someoldguy Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 59
i didn't wanna have to put this...but quit B****in' and Moanin' about the match...it's over like nigel said...let this topic slide to the bottom of the hill...the match is over and it was a good match and strait was the winner and nobody is going to take it away from him cuz it's final...now everyone quit b****in' and moanin' about the match and let it be...we all have our opinions on it (the match) and those opinions aren't going to change anything!

Re: Weishaar got screwed #42079 03/05/03 05:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Ok, nevermind what I said, Kahuna if you feel inclined to send your stupid little tape to KSHSAA then be my guest. And I guarantee you only one of two things will happen. 1. You will get a nice little letter from Rick Bowden or some other board member saying that hes sorry that this had to happen but there is nothing that he can do. Or 2 and more likely, the incredibly busy Mr. Bowden won't even bother to look at the tape becuase he probably doesn't give a crap becuase things like this happen quite often and he can't go wasting his time trying to jusify every time an official make a "judgement" call which in fact this was. Im sorry that you feel like this is the worst thign that has ever happened in wrestling but it is not. And just becuase you "refuse to lay down" the rest of us have to see your complaining post. Now as I said before leave it alone or keep it to yourself becuase I don't think anyone else cares. Also I don't appreciate your comments about Both Jake and Coach Moore. Jake is a good wrestler and he deserved that titel regardless of winning the other two, and Coach Moore has been around and knows quite a but more about wrestling than you do, so please for the love of God drop it.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Nate Naasz, RedStorm 

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 131 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
bvswwrestling, CoachFitzOS, Dluce, Shawn Russell, CorbinPickerill
12302 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,055
Posts250,663
Members12,302
Most Online1,305
Mar 13th, 2025
Top Posters(All Time)
usawks1 8,595
smokeycabin 6,248
Aaron Sweazy 5,259
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.2
(Release build 20190702)
PHP: 7.2.34 Page Time: 0.331s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8456 MB (Peak: 1.1219 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-04-08 09:04:41 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS