I'm sure I should know this, but in the Oberlin tournement, 3rd and 4th in both 140 and 145 had (won by cointoss-6 match) noted with the third place winners. What does this refer to? Be advised, I of course know what a coin toss is just not sure how it applies to deciding the outcome of a wrestling match.

After thinkin about this, I think Iv'e figured this out. Is it when the match goes into the second overtime period, the coin is tossede and the top wrestler rides out the period and wins?

lol... In Kansas the max number of matches a wrestler can wrestle in one day is 5... the con. finals matches couldnt be wrestled due to one or both wrestlers haveing wrestled the max (5) matches. For team points purposes they must have had a coin toss to see who gets 3rd and 4th place team points and medals.

5465,
In the state of Kansas the kids can only compete in 5 matches in one day. In some bigger one day tournaments, depending on the bracket and which round the wrestler gets beat, they will possibly end up with 6 matches. If this does happen then the match will be decided by coin toss. Agree or disagree with this, that's the way it is. Someone please correct me if this is incorrect.

Sorry TRAVIUS for repeating your response. Looks like we were replying at the same time.

There is a Rule that the KSHAA follows which states a wrestler may wrestle no more than 5 matches in one day. In large brackets there is potential for someone coming out the consolation side of the bracket to have a 6th match in a consolation finals match. The outcome of the 6th match is decided by a coin flip.

we all jumped on this at the same time.

I remember someone once saying the Coaches of the wrestlers should go out and battle to determine the winner. I think the criteria should be if both wrestlers have wrestled 5 times that day, go to some tiebreak criteria.

Maybe if they figured heads up matches against common opponents (if any that day) they can determine who had most falls, then TF, Majors, and if still tied go back to accumulative time of falls or something. A disk shouldn't determine the winner, but some aspect of wrestling should, and that would reward a wrestler for a good job during a tournament's progression.

I'm specualting that this rule was established to safe guard a wrestlers academics. What I'd like to know is does the KSHAA think that these wrestlers are going to return to the stands following match #5 of the day and do school work during a tournament!!! I believe they already have the academics covered with the grade checks. This rule appears to be redundant to the KSHAA objectives. Maybe I don't understand the overall issues that were considered when these policys were developed, but from my view many seem silly.

Academics have nothing to do with the rule, it is a health issue. After 5 matches the KSHAA determined that a health risk is a greater probabilty. I know from previous experience that a wrestler, even a top notch wrestler, does not wrestle his best after 4 matches, they are just too drained.
I agree with Mr. Sweazy on the fact the maybe the tie breaker criteria for duals should be added to determine the winner, at least that has something to do with wrestling instead of pure luck. This is the exact reason I do not gamble, there is just not a high percentage outcome. The KSHAA has done a good job on this one, keeping wrestlers/athletes healthy is of main concern. It is not the best outcome but neither is wrestling 6 matches in one day, this is the best fix for the problem and it has held up for many years.
Someone once said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sometimes we are too quick to change, somethings are fine the way they are, some on the other hand need changed (alternative fuel sources come to mind).
Coach Brown

Don't you just hate it when someone brings facts AND logic to a discussion?

Ultimately the coaches need to speak up for rules change. I have seen the coin toss deal and think it's terrible way to end a wrestling tournament for some guy.

Without getting into the debate of more than 5 matches, the rules are the rules and currently wrestlers can't wrestle more than 5 in one day. That being the case, I think the best way is to use a tie break criteria, I would rather loose on that than on a coin toss.

How often does this rule come into play???
Sounds like the Electorial College debate in politics that happens whenever it MIGHT come into play...

5 matches in a day is a rarety and only happens in those tourneys where it's a one dayer and they wrestler to 5th & 6th. Better resolution is to not wrestler for 5th/6th or make it a two day tourney...

Mission Valley tournament I've seen wrestlers going for 3rd and 4th that have had 5 matches on the day.

The possibility for wrestling more than five matches in a day exists in any bracketed one-day tournament where there is a need to bracket twelve wrestlers or more in a weight class.

The problem begins thusly; in order to have a full 8 man bracket tournament, more than 8 teams are needed to participate. As many as 12 to 14 schools may be needed; some weights will have fewer than 8 wrestlers, but some may have 12 or 13!

The problem is then what to do with the "extra" wrestlers in each weight class? Pig tail them (lose one and your done) or bracket them into the tournament using a 12/16 man bracket? If a 12/16 man bracket is used the possibility exists for 5+ matches in a day if a wrestler in one of the "extra" brackets loses his first match but wrestles all the way back through the consolation side.

It is not so rare of a problem as some might think. It would seem that the use of criterion in those situations is preferrable to flipping a coin. Another way was used in a Nebraska tournament we used to attend. The 3&4 place points were divided evenly between the two affected teams and both wrestlers received a third place medal.

The five (5) match limit is not unique to Kansas athletes. The KSHSAA is following the rules as set forth by the National Federation of State High School Associations.

From the 2005-2006 NFHS Wrestling Rule Book:

Rule 1.2.2 (page 9)
No wrestler shall represent the school in more than one weight class in any meet or compete in more than five matches, including forfeits (championship or consolation) in any one day.

Well, thank you Richard! No one's disputing the rule you posted!! We all know it's there and in force!!!!
(Needed to edit my post, that I was writing, as Richard posted the rule we've been discussing in this very thread)

ANYWAY...
I'm not saying it NEVER happens, nor am I saying there doesn't need to be a better way to fix the problem...but isn't there a responsibility for the meet organizers and the wrestler's coach to look out for potential situations that might "screw" a kid that gets 5+ matches a day???

I'm not defending NFHS's/KSHSAA's rule of only 5 and no more. Just using it as a established rule and saying coaches and organizers need to keep this rule in mind when getting ready for meets.

In Summary:
Work to change the rule and allow for the 6th match, if needed - OR - change the formats of tournaments to prevent this unfortunate situation from arising.

(And from an Ex-coach's position: I'm not in favor of pig-tails where a kids gets beat once and sits the rest of the tourney!!!)

From the 2005-2006 NFHS Wrestling Case Book and Manual:

Pages 8-9
Rule 1.2.2 Situation:
In a multiple school tournament being conducted in one day, there are:
(a) eight schools invited, and it is announced four places will be scored; or
(b) 16 teams are invited, and it is announced six places will be scored.

Ruling:
Wrestlers are limited to no more than five matches during a day. Matches are those for which the time limit is specified by rule and are six minutes in length for championship or five or six minutes in length for consolation.

In (a), it would be possible for a school to conduct an eight-team tournament, wrestling back to four places, because this would consist of a maximum of four matches for any wrestler.

In (b), if only the losers of the quarterfinal bracket go to the wrestle-back it could be completed in only five matches per day. If, however, the first-round losers enter the wrestle-back, there is a possibility that some contestants would be involved in six matches. This would not be allowed and would be in violation of Rule 1-2-2 which states, no wrestler shall represent the school in more than five matches in any one day. Therefore some consolation finals could not be wrestled. If one wrestler had wrestled in four matches and the other wrestler in five matches, then the wrestler with four matches would be the winner by forfeit. If it was the match for third place and both wrestlers had been in five matches, then they would both receive points for fourth place. There could be no one for third.

Did anyone mention a dispute?

A post stated which implies this is a rule of KSHSAA's when in fact it is a rule from the National Federation of State High School Associations.

I have made this ammendment to the KWCA before that this could all be solved with just a little editing of the rule. The rule currently reads 5 matches, which if tallied in minutes would equal 30 minutes of wrestling in one day, add OT too all five and that brings the total to 35 minutes in one day. Add tiebreaker to each one of those and the total number of minutes that an athlete could wrestle in one day is 38 minutes. If the rule read that no athlete shall wrestle in more than 38 minutes of competition I would bet that would cover 95% of the 5 match problems. Because of Falls and the lack of OT and tiebreakers. Many have said it would be a night mare to keep track of but you can grab any bracket and figure mat time in every match with the exception of Tech Falls to see where the athletes are minute wise. We just hosted our JV Tourney this week end and ended up doing what has been said here in this post flipped a coin and split the points in 4 wt classes. If the rule had been edited as such above we would have not had a single flip. This would not require a rule change just an editorial clairification of what the "rule" already allows us to do.