There is nothing wrong with taking someone to another person who is familiar with learned behavior. Counseling can only help people.

I'm not taking shots at Rhodes. I'm am taking shots at Hill. He has issues. I know that for a fact. And I do know Hill very well.

Yo... we ALL have issues...

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Rom 3:23 NIV)

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7 NIV)

No one threw a stone... they all dropped their rocks and when home hopefully to ponder their OWN sinfulness...

Sermon over.

Hey Hasbeen, I think you missed the point of my post, I am not blaming the West kids entirely although everyone is resposible for their own behavior in this world, I am blaming the entire atmosphere they foster. If you think the behavior of their crowd and their coaches didnt have a major share of the blame for it you didnt watch or listen to them. You think West is the only squad that wrestles hard and physical. There is a good reason that everyone was after them and it wasn't that they were so tough it was that they acted so badly and I don't just mean the kids. Hey kids do what they are trained and allowed to do. You know exactly what I am saying here if you ever watched that whole show.

Westfahl-
I know there is good reason everyone is after them. I do understand what you were saying in your last post. I am always around people who are after them.
(This next comment is not directed to you Westfahl because I already think you understand what I saying.)
For me though, I don't really care about all their problems. I don't care what there parents and coaches do in the crowd. I always have watched West WRESTLERS for wrestling. If you get beyond all the exterior stuff it is pretty awesome. In my opinion they are the most exciting kids to watch. They are great wrestlers and do some amazing things. People just seem not to be able to get beyond their lives beyond wrestling. But I guess that is their problem. That is just the way I look at things.

I know what you are saying there. I look at it as a coach who has coached a lot of kids who wanted to act just like they did and some of them I did better with than others. Some of them I failed miserably with, I am the first to admit that. The point I am making and the real sticking point between me and some of their folks there is that they all helped make it worse. They had some great athletes there no question but heck look at all the kids they had that blew state championships because of that constant chaos they were associated with. Nobody ever liked Emporia or Norton in the old days either but those suckers prevailed. They did that because they had solid base behind them. When those kids at West turned away from the chaos on the mat they were greeted with even more chaos behind them. Thomas could have been a three or four timer and so could a lot of others there. As it is they are sort of a curiousity and a morbid one at that. I see what you are saying I just think there is a whole lot more to what was happening there.

Half the coaches can not keep their cool how can we expect all of the wrestlers to act with restraint? We had one coach thrown out for tossing a chair and sounds like per Pittsburgh we should have had another coach ejected.

he tried to stab me with a butter knife at southern plains camp when he was probably 12 then he ripped the shirt off of another guy. he needs to go to anger management.

cat--you mean Phillipsburg, not Pittsburg and no, no coach there deserved to be thrown out.

NO, It's just something he still needs to grow out of. There's no problem with him. Everybody now and then in their lives make the same mistakes over and over again. We need to leave poor Thomas alone.

so what do you boys say we talk some wrestling, this being the wrestlig forum and all, I think the state tournament is going to be a good one, what do you guys think?

Yes it will be a good tournament Kenny.

P.S. U going to be there?

yeah, I just got permission to go, I;m really excited to see everyone and see how the team does thiis year.

Oh my god I can't beleive two people are arguing over weather or not a kid is good, bad, stupis and who knows what else. I do know Thomas and as I coached last year at kids state when he went up against Ross Taplin my only words to Ross was "You do your own thing, and his attitude will take care of him" I think you can understand what I meant. Thomas could be and I emphasize "could" a good wrestler but his attitude will never let him. look where he is now, no state no medal, nothing. Bottom line is there is no room in wrestling for attitudes like that and more importantly displays of anger like this one. As a coach if one of my kids acts like that I don't care if he is disqualified by the tournament or not he would not wrestle, period! I would not let him, which bring up another interesting point, where was he coach the whole time? Ah it doesn't even matter. Anyway just my opinion