Calling you out Gut-less wrench! I have some theories on who you are and feel that you are the incarnation of another former "cage-rattling" forum poster. Is that right? Hows things these days? send me a private and we can converse, in the meantime, go read the new book on the BTK killer, check out the psychological profile--interesting stuff about making up for lack of certain abilities.......

SG all-americans
kids freestyle/greco 2004

Chris Strimple 1x
Gage Deere 2x


Colin Hase
Gage Deere
Zach Reeb
part of Schoolboy National dual team


Jesse Hardy-Cadet dual team
Larry Perez-National Greco runner-up

I don't have anything against Klemm. He was a pretty good wrestler in his time and he did good job with his kids program. Klemm coached East Kansas from 1989-2003. Compare those years with Blair Academy and tell me, using common sense if you possess it, that East Kansas can compare to them. By the way one of Klemm’s top wrestlers, Justin Dyer, was knocked off by Blair’s Kurt Backes at the 2002 High School Nationals.
Dyer had no business being on the mat with the kid. The technique of the Blair kid was far superior to that of the East Kansas kid. As far as Johnston, Bunch, Roberson goes, I guess your going to tell me that their high school and college coaches had nothing to do with their success. I really think that Bobby Douglas (Iowa State coach) probably taught Roberson a little more than Klemm. I would say that Bobby Douglas has probably forgotten more about wrestling than Klemm will ever know.
Lastly, I would think that you would have sense enough not to give credit to Klemm for Stanford's lone national champion. That kid was on his way to a championship before Klemm even showed up at Stanford. So, even implying that Klemm molded this kid’s accomplishment places Klemm on the coattails of someone else’s success.

As for making me feel like an idiot, I seriously doubt that you will ever do it with your lack of wrestling knowledge.

Well we Wrestled Blair Academy in high school there good because none of their kids are from New jersey they get the best from around the country and when we wrestled them they had two studs from Russia, you could put the best kids from kansas in each weight and they would get killed.

Hey gutwrench, when you can beat me a juco wrestler here at Labette. In fact when you can beat any of the college wrestlers who have come from the Sunflower Gold wrestling team you can start talking trash. East Kansas hasnt produced just D1 wrestlers you know. No I do not know who has wrestled in college other than D1'S right now. But still when you have the "gut" to tell us all who you are and step onto the mat yourself , you should just keep your mouth shut.
I bet you probably never even wrestled in college or placed at high school state.

Gut makes a good point. The success of Roberson, Bunch and Johnston do have a common denominator, the EKL wrestling club (coach Klemm). There are other good coaches in KS, but not this kind of success. Maybe coincidence, maybe coaching. Gut also makes a good point about practice, if you're on your feet 75% of the time you should practice there 75% of the time.

I'd be surprised to see Kansas have such a successful state tournament like this years.


If you want to compare to schools like
Blair Academy, note that they are a national high school team. I don't think they compete at the New Jersey State tournament. They travel the states wrestling top teams and competing in big tournaments like the Ironman and the Beast of the East.

Also other top High School team in the Nation that may arguably have a stronger tradition than Blair Academy is St Edwards in Cleveland, Ohio (same town as Walsh Acedemy mentioned by Rizo). I've seen there team and would most easily beat all star team of State champions in Kansas.
They are good on their feet and the mat.

Ive heard of a poll that say that high school wrestling is tougher in New Jersey then in Pennsylvania and Ohio that have produced a ton of division I quality kids in the last couple of years.

Hint: I'm listed in the National Wrestling Hall of Fame of Champions in Stillwater. I do enjoy stirring you guys up. Yes, Dity-Bird, I can knock your you know what it the dirt.

I believe the common ground on most of these wrestlers is summer wrestling. There is an art to riding Oklahoma State won many national titles due to there riding ability (reference from Gable to Gotch). Klemm has done an outstanding job with helping evolve the kids he has worked with. One thing to remember is that unless you throw someone you can't turn them from your feet. I personally believe you can also be successful with a good leg ride as well. Look at the likes of Les Gutches or Kendall Cross. Gutches could put in the legs and make people beg to get pinned. I just believe college guys are harder to control on the mat and hence why many matches spend a lot of time on the feet. None the less, you have to be well rounded in multiple areas to be a successful wrestler. Kevin has done a great job and is fairly humble. He would probably assure you that these kids made the sacrifices of their own and have been helped by several people along the way including each other. If you look at the multitude of talent in that room it is bound to feed off one another.

Phippen, I do agree with your comments in principle about OSU from the top position. But do you realize that 10 NCAA finals matches there was not a single nearfall? Jesse Jantzen was the most recent example of really dominant top guy but this is the exception not the rule. Neutral decides the outcome of most matches and I'm going to keep harping on that until we get it accepted by the KS wrestling intelligentsia. They've got it wrong.

Can you even SPELL? And who cares if you are in the Hall of Fame, the point is you wont even share with us your name obviously you are scared to tell us who you are. Besides if you are saying that KS coaches arent as good as Klemm then you should probably take a look around you and stop running your mouth until you give your name.

Gutwrench,

Does that mean that our college wrestlers need to focus on riding more. If you look at the past the likes of Gable and Taylor. Those guys gave up no points in tournaments. Not just offensive points, they never played the take em down let em up game. I believe to be the best you must dominate in all positions. You can get in a lot of trouble just focusing on one area. I will say though that the neutral postition is the most important, it is not the only position. Personally I do not like just the take down game. I coach my guys to pin as it is the defining moment of what wrestling is about and as stated before unless you are a thrower. Youhave to have a good ride, not just to earn points, but to dominate and get the fall.

Collegiate/Folk Style

In the NCAA finals all matches had taken downs and escapes. Of the 10 matches 6 of the winners had riding time advantage. Of the Semi-finals all the matches had takedowns and escapes. Even a locked hands.

Semi-Finals 20 matches
13 of the 20 matches had nearfall and/or riding time involved.

Semi-Recap
125lbs All Takedowns and Escapes Only

133 Lee - Fall/Pin Hawaiian Style
Bunch/Riding Time Kansas Style

141 Gallick/Simmons Takedowns and Escapes Only
Ware/Keefe 10 Back Points and Riding Time

149 Esposito - Riding Time
Simpson - Riding Time

157 Johnson - No Riding Time (Kansas Style)
Bertin - Riding Time

165 Perry Rides Letters
Hendricks No Riding Time

174 Pendelton 6 points on Nearfall
Askren Riding Time (Wisconsin Style)

197 Stender Riding Time
Rosholt Wins on Riding Time

HWT Mocco Riding Time (New Jersey Style)
Konrad Riding Time (Wisconsin Style)

ALL Three Areas - Top, Bottom and Neutral Are All Important. It's Folk Style

You can't compare Blair to East Kansas because its a club not a school. We didn't have practice everyday like blair. Mister Luther Rizo did you see the match between Dyer and the Blair kid the score was 4-3 with Backes getting a takedown with a minute to go. Don't think it was a butt kickin. Also there are many great coaches in Kansas like every state some coaches believe in wrestling on the mat others on your feet kleem liked his feet. If you can ride its a big bonus get time to get energy back but wrestling on your feet in were you win or lose the match 75% of the time.

I was definitely cheering for the 133 and 157 Kansas young men during the NCAA finals. But if you look at their matches each of them had at least one minute less than their opponent on top and or neutral. Which means they did not have as many opportunities for a take down. How many extra succesful shots can you take in a minute. There were 4 other finalists that gave up riding time and lost.

Gutwrench,

Does that mean that our college wrestlers need to focus on riding more. If you look at the past the likes of Gable and Taylor. Those guys gave up no points in tournaments. Not just offensive points, they never played the take em down let em up game. I believe to be the best you must dominate in all positions. You can get in a lot of trouble just focusing on one area. I will say though that the neutral postition is the most important, it is not the only position. Personally I do not like just the take down game. I coach my guys to pin as it is the defining moment of what wrestling is about and as stated before unless you are a thrower. Youhave to have a good ride, not just to earn points, but to dominate and get the fall.

Additional evidence on the importance of all three phases of wrestling can be found in the 2004 NCAA I finals. 7 of the 10 champs in 2004 scored nearfall points and/or had riding time advantage. It does happen but not very often - where the guy with riding time advantage loses.

Loss of Klemm will certainly be an impact - he has a proven track record. But he is not the only one in Kansas capable of churning out D1 All-Americans.

And, by the way, I suspect that Flynn, Zalesky and Douglas had a bit to do with these guy's success too - not just Klemm.

Gut - by the way when discussing Blair Academy, you missed Perry who finished his prep career at Blair and was a NCAA finalist this year (who, fyi, also wins a large share of his matches from top).

Kansas wrestling has improved by leaps and bound on the national scene in the past decade. Now that the bar has been raised by the Robersons, Bunches, Johnstons and Murrays of the world, this success will grow upon itself and continue to escalate. The pedigrees, coaching and confidence is all there to do so. And what a fine group of young men Kansas has poised to carry the torch!

As for the importance of takedowns. No arguement that neutral position skill is necessary to compete. But solid mat skills can make up for a deficiency from neutral.

I offer three points to support this, could certainly add more but think these three do it adequately -

1). Jake Rosholt is "only" 2x NCAA champ. He was taken down twice in the finals and still won. If Stender had been better from top, he'd have won the match. But Rosholt used a counter from neutral and three escapes to earn the title. Stender walked off the mat with two takedowns, but a runner-up finish. Rosholt can get takedowns, but most are generally off of counters. Hardly a poster child for the prototypical takedown king - but two NCAA titles and looking for a third.

2). Muzaffar Abdurakhmanov, when healthy, is unmatched in terms of neutral position skill. Absolutely phenomenal ability from neutral. He didn't place at this year's event. Why? Partially because he was injured, but also becase opponenets kept their elbows in, minimized scoring opportunities and made Muzaffar score from the mat. Result - Muzaffar, along with both who beat him, all failed to medal. Opposing coaches found a way to neutralize Muzaffar's strengths. Muzaffar handled Johnston pretty well at the Midlands-but I bet Zalesky would have followed similar strategy had they met in St. Louis.

3). Jake Percival - 4X All-American and a finalist. No where near the best in the weight from neutral, but still successful.

Neutral position prowess - important? You bet! Guaranteed success? No freaking way - just ask Stender, Abdurakhmanov or anyone of the many who took Percival down and still ended up losing.

A one dimensional athlete regardless of the sport will fail at the highest levels. YOu might be able to get away with it at lower levels (HS), but you'll get exposed as the competition improves.

Clarifications and specifications:
I never said EKWC was a bigger deal than Blair. But in terms of NCAA finalists East Kansas has had as many in the past two years. Never said Klemm alone was responsible for the success of these 6A East Kansas finalists, but that he was a common thread and developed them in HS.
Smokey, another way to look at it is that "riding" time didn't decide who won because it was only one point of many points scored in these matches. only 14% of the match needs to take place for someone to get riding time. 75% of the action is on your feet. There were no nearfalls in the 10 NCAA finals. So, as coach where do you want to spend most of your practice time?
ditsy-bird, I'll work on my spelling. Some of you have asked that I support my claims with my credentials so I have done so but no matter who speaks the truth you ought to consider it.