Nigel, I'm going to stop posting as soon as you or anybody produces a KS hs or club coach who's had more than 3 NCAA DI finalists in two years like coach Klemm.

Yes Gutwrentch as a matter of fact I do, and not only that but I and everyone else here in Kansas have seen it happen time and time again. But it doesn't just stop with wrestling it extends to other sports as well. Some of our best wrestlers have gone to college to compete in a completly different sport i.e Jeff Boyle. How you compare scholarships is a matter of discussion. As you can imagine a "full ride" scholarship to a DI school is worth more money than a "full ride" to a similar PUBLIC DII school. As it has been mentioned many times before some kids just don't want to wrestle DI, its not because they can't. Look at Ross Taplin, he was 4th this year at Senior Nationals and he is wrestling DII at Omaha because he likes the program, the coach, and two other guys from our home town are up there right now. If you don't think he could compete in DI with a few years of development than I would say you are the crazy one. By the way you can't compare MLB to wrestling, they are not even remotely the same. Some day gut, you will understand that there may be more important things for kids to accomplish than wrestling @ a DI college program and most likely having minimal sucess.

All,

I don't want to touch the debate about wrestling on the feet, etc. But as far as the kids going to college issue I have a question/idea...

Could KS wrestlers be choosing to go to smaller schools because Kansas does not have any Division I wrestling programs? You know a lot of kids prefer to stay closer to home for college because of a variety of reasons.

My personnel opinion is that it would be great if the KS colleges could establish some wrestling programs. After watching the high school wrestling in KS and helping coach in the little kids programs for the past two years I am thouroghly impressed with the number of wrestlers and the level of wrestling in KS. It's a shame that our kids have to grow up wrestling knowing that they have to go out of state to wrestle when it comes time for college.

Just some thoughts.

I think you're correct, Shawn ..... and then we have to become flyhalfs and wingers!

Gut,

Using your thought process, then a wrestler should always chose OK St. over Harvard because after all, OSU is better at wrestling.

Getting an education is secondary, right? Tell that to the Harvard boys. Granted, OSU doesn't recruit Harvard types - nor does Harvard recruit OSU types. But just suppose they did.

Are you saying that a wrestler should withhold from Harvard? What kind of advice is that?

The initial argument was D1 doesn't recruit Kansas. I say so what. Getting an education is most important. I just wished AC would figure that out. It might help him become "fry chief" at the local burger shop. If he'd just follow the OSHA codes around that darn fry machine.

"Ding" fries are done.

Note -This post was edited after notice was sent that I had two errors. My bad and thanks.

Coach Gibson is absolutly correct in what he says. And I will add to that. Many of our wrestlers are choosing to go to schools not DI because the schools they do choose have a degree that they wish to earn. As I have said before there really is no future beyond college wrestling for 98% of all the participants, so kids now are looking for an education which they can use once they graduate.

Gut,

When are you putting on your takedown clinic so the kids and coaches of Kansas can learn from your plethora of knowledge?

Hey even with a bad shoulder I'll wrestle a takedown match with him, and show him just how well we here in Kansas do on our feet, I know I was only taken down in high school maybe 20 times, most of them my freshman and sophmore years.

News flash here Gibby. Harvard is a DI school and had an NCAA champ in 2004. Harvard is part of the IVY League and wrestles in the EIWA conference with Penn, Cornell, Lehigh, etc. DII, III and NAIA are fine and it's great we have these other choices and wrestling programs. I don't mean to put them down. But, you don't get a crack at winning THE national title and doing it live in front of millions on ESPN when you go to a place like UNO or FHS. Outside of winning the Olympics, the NCAA-DIs are as big as it gets. Now, who among the KS wrestling intelligentsia would argue against that statement? Our wrestlers aren't choosing UNO, Ft. Hayes, LaBette, Neosho because these are better academic choices than DI schools as Nigel would have us believe. That's bunk. And, it's not because they don't think they're good enough. More KS kids would wrestle DI if they had opportunity. What we ought to be doing instead of wasting time here is petitioning KSU or KU and enlisting the Big XII wrestling coaches who want more teams. The coaches have the ears of the Big XII ADs. The Big XII coaches are furious about only getting 36 qualifiers. It's in their interests to have more teams like the Big Ten which gets 70-something qualifiers. Who among the KS wrestling intelligentsia is up for working on that? You guys all know B Smith, J Smith, Manning, Douglas and Spates because you've told me how much they like the KS style of wrestling. So, who among you can take some time away from teaching kids how to stall and build a business plan to present at the next Big XII coaches meeting?

penny-wise wrote: "Gut, When are you putting on your takedown clinic so the kids and coaches of Kansas can learn from your plethora of knowledge?"

Dear Penny Wise and Pound Foolish
Abundance of knowledge does not teach men to be wise.
Heraclitus (540 BC - 480 BC)

So gut, do you mean to suggest to me that the level of academics at any given DI school is always better than a DII or other college level, because the last time I checked the only thing separating collegiate levels is the number of students attending, not by the quality of teachers or programs they offer. In fact many people suggest they get better knowledge from attending a smaller university because they can interface with their teachers who aren't busy with 400 other students, and a whole host of other things. If you are truly suggesting that the more students who attend a school correlates to the level of education a person recieves from said school, I would say you've got some issues.

Gutwrench:

Then don't!

No one will argue that the D1's are as big as it gets in folk style wrestling, but maybe many of our top athletes have other priorities and are working towards them. Or maybe they are tired of wrestling. I know when I graduated I thought I was ready to be done with the sport (not that I could have gone D1 anyway, but probably lowly D2, NAIA, or JUCO). The point is you don't know these kids, but pretend to speak on their behalf. Why aren't they the ones on here posting about how Kansas wrestling has held them back?

If that is so, why didn't K-State add wrestling in 1998 when they had a $2 million dollar pledge in order to start the sport, and more support on the way? The reason is Title IX and money! The AD's aren't interested in wrestling at the Universities that do not already have it because it will not make money, and that is really what they are concerned about right now.

I am not currently teaching any kids to stall, and I never have. I am currently busy teaching kids about Acids and Bases (Honors Chemistry), the Gas Laws and Solutions (General Chemistry), and Taxonomy and Classification (Biology). What you are forgetting is the vast majority of coaches you have been insulting here are first and foremost educators. We spend more time than you will ever know creating lesson plans, grading papers, contacting parents, and tutoring struggling students before and after school. Since you are the Hall of Famer, and surely carry more weight than us stalling Kansas coaches, go ahead and create your business plan and present it to the AD's. We will see how that goes over.

I have said this before, until you become an active participant, you will never see the change you want to see.

I think my signature applies here.

"I don't mean to put them down. But, you don't get a crack at winning THE national title and doing it live in front of millions on ESPN when you go to a place like UNO or FHS. Outside of winning the Olympics, the NCAA-DIs are as big as it gets." gutwrench1


You are saying that D1 is as big as it gets? Okay,what about the guys who are talented enough for D1's but dont have the grades? That is a point there and tell me the answer to this one here. Josh Baldridge is a 4x state champion, he is going to attend Labette Community Collge and wrestle for the best coach in the nation. Tell me why he is doing this, because some guys simply do not want to go to a D1 and I will tell you this now, all wrestlers have their own style and I will have to say that LCC wrestling is a take down team as well as our riding ability. so you can sit there and say that every wrestler is wanting to wrestle on a D1 team?? NO, I dont think so or else or our best would be there. If you don't know who they are take a look at the AA's from SR. Nationals. Not one of them is going D1. Oh yea the point I'm trying to make is for some wrestlers a JUCO is as big as it gets. Is there a problem with this? If so drive to SE corner of Kansas and step on the mat with the best team in the NATION! Where we are all about TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS.

P.S. Hey Gibby, how are them fries??

ever hear of Marcus Lavessuer or Akeem Carter - both High School All-Americans....both quite content competing in DIII

Lavessuer is the starting quarteback and a 3X undefeated DIII national champ - who was recruited by practically every major DI wrestling program in the country - went to University of Minnesota and decided it wasn't for him. Doing just fine now. Carter was an NHSCA champ. and now a DIII champ.

How about Emmett Wilson for Montana State Northern. He only won the Hodge competing in NAIA. Won the Vegas Invite and Midlands - what a wuss he is, huh?

Carlton Hasselrig? He won 3 DII titles and wildcarded into the DI tourney, so he won that three times too.

Turk Lords? Cole Province? Mo Lawal? Stevie Williams? Mike Massenzio? ...........

Just because you aren't DI doesn't mean you aren't talented.

Might just mean that the athlete had more in mind wrestling DI. Maybe he wanted his parents to see him compete everytime out. Maybe he wanted to play two sports. Maybe he wanted a life besides wrestling 24/7 while trying to make Zalesky, Manning, Smith, etc. happy. Maybe he couldn't qualify academically.

Maybe......he just wanted to provide more fodder for gut to make an arse of himself with.


oh and one other thing....does anyone else find it interesting that the person preaching the importance of neutral position wrestling has an on-line moniker that represents a mat wrestling hold?

Lazaro Renoso wrestled for Carson Newman and never won a DII title, but beat John Smith at the Olympics and ended up placing 3rd.

Tom Erickson wrestled Juco
Another wrestler from Canada wrestled NAIA and won an olympic title.
Jody Strittmatter wrestled DII prior to wrestling at Iowa.
Ryan Lewis wrestled for DII prior to wrestling at Minnesota.
TJ Williams wrestled Juco.

There are plenty of great wrestlers out there that didn't start out in Division I.

Bunch and Johnston will both be guests at Matside Freestyle this spring/summer. . in June.

Sweet, Akin are you still available to Coach a Tag-Team? You aren't as big as Swayz so you're at a little disadvantage, but still a stud. Best of luck with the club this year.

Gut please...

Don't try to insult me with the Harvard being a D1 rhetoric. I know their classification. And you're right, they had a Champion last year. I saw it.

The point I was driving was that if all things are equal, under your astute knowledge, a wrestler should take OSU every time - to which I reply, that's just stupid.

I had a wrestler his junior year get letters from Columbia. No other D1 wanted him. Columbia wanted him because he was also an outstanding student. He's doing well for himself right now, majoring in aeronotical engineering at WSU - one of the top schools in that field.

He decided to hang the shoes up and prepare himself for an lucrative career. According to your posts, this was stupid.

Jordon - the fries are good. Can't wait to play another frisbee golf match.

So, your saying that your abundance of knowledge won't help us become wise. Okay.

Also, KSU or KU won't ever get a wrestling program unless Title IX is done away with or revised. Why do you think they added equestrian rather than softball or soccer? Because they ended up with more scholarship numbers by adding equestrian. How can you even recruit for equestrian? I don't know of any high school that has that sport.

Hay House:

I was at Imac from 1998 through 2002 -- the program was dropped after the 2002-03 season due to a lack of numbers. I was also head coach at Maur Hill for the 2002-03 season, and my understanding is that they dropped it this past season.

I have always regretted leaving Imac. It was a good school with good people in it. If I'd stayed a couple of more years I probably could have had it on better footing before I left. Sadly, I baled when I lost a good group of seniors and our sharing agreement with Kansas State School for the Blind ended. Would love to have that one over again. Not that I'm not happy here in Iowa, but I would have liked to have left the Immaculata program in a survivable position.