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Girls vs. boys #53513 12/12/03 11:06 AM
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Coach Holmes Offline OP
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This article appeared yesterday in the Algona (IA) Upper Des Moines newspaper. I was wondering what others might think of this.


Local Sports
Thougts of Moment: Right or wrong, wrestle or not

By:Scott Shannon December 11, 2003
For the record, I believe female athletes should not be allowed to compete with the boys at the varsity high school level and above-no exceptions, none. You can't say girls can compete in one sport but not another. No, all sports.

With that said, right or wrong, Algona coach Brian Morgan was faced with a tough decision this past Thursday, Dec. 4, when Clarion-Goldfield came to town. For the second time in as many years, Clarion had a female wrestler in the varsity lineup.

Roxanne Soesbe, the only female varsity wrestler in the North Central Conference, played a key role in Clarion's 39-36 victory over Algona last season, and as it turned out had a hand in this seasons victory as well.

Last year, Soesbe pinned her opponent and started heating up the topic of female athletes competing in male sports on a local level.

This year, facing similar circumstances, Morgan elected to forfeit the 112-pound match against Soesbe. For his part, Morgan said the decision not to wrestle Soesbe was not based on her gender.

Rather, Morgan said he didn't have an experienced 119-pound wrestler because state qualifier Tyler Bjustrom is still injured, and the backup isn't ready. Instead, Morgan moved up his 112-pound wrestler, saying it was a good chance for him to face a quality opponent.

Regardless, the decision had Algona fans buzzing clear into the weekend. What was the right thing to do? Wrestle Soesbe, or forfeit. Right or wrong. Moral or not. Some fans said forfeiting was absolutely the right thing to do, and even if the dual had come down to her match, you still should forfeit.

Speaking for myself, hogwash. I'm already on the record for my feelings about girl athletes competing against boys; it shouldn't happen. But, since at our present time, girls are allowed to compete in wrestling, you shouldn't just walk away.

Competition is competition. Life isn't always fair, sometimes it down right stinks. That's the great thing about sports, teaching young men and women how to handle life.

The ones still in high school won't realize what they've learned for at least a few more years, but sports helps shape us into who we are was adults.

What better way to learn about the ups and downs of life than from sports. Competition is the great equalizer. Sports can have you feeling like a king one moment, or down in the dumps the next. Only in sports can someone go from hero to goat in a matter of breath-taking moments.

For those of you who'll say it, you're right, I wasn't at Clarion last year when Soesbe pinned an Algona wrestler. I've heard people were hard on him because of that, and sometimes cruel.

That's too bad, from what I've been told, he's a very nice young man. But, that's life, it's not always a bowl of cherries. And, if the teasing got out of hand, veteran team members should've taken charge of the situation.
The road through life is paved with many obstacles and this was one for him.

Competition is competition, remember that. I don't care if you get beat by a girl. You got beat by an opponent, bottom line. When you get beat, pick yourself back up and work harder to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Soesbe's path was a tough one just to get to this spot. She quit wrestling at one point because of verbal and sexual harassment. I told people that, and the response I got was tough, that's life. Yeah, exactly, the same goes on the other side.

"She's just like anyone else, she wants to go out and scrap," said Clarion coach Vic Vanderpool. Soesbe has sweated her way into a top five national girls ranking at her weight, and finished third in the national tournament last March.

"A lot of guys want to wrestle a girl just to put them to shame," Soesbe said. "More guys are being more accepting. I think in the future, more schools will have girls wrestling."

The Iowa Girls High School Athletic Union states no male shall compete in a female sport like volleyball. However, girls can compete in sports that are not offered such as wrestling and football.

Vanderpool expects Soesbe will have her fair share of matches this season in tournaments. Currently Soesbe is Clarion's No. 1 wrestler at 112. That means anyone who meets her in tournament action will have to wrestle her, or face forfeiting the rest of the day.

Chances are, Soesbe won't last long during the weekend tournaments. She'll likely receive a low seed and have to wrestle one of the top seeds early in the tournament, and likely will be beaten.

It's not right, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is not separation of races were talking about. However, with all that said, girls should not be ignored as well. Win or lose, at least it was about the competition and not about the issue.

Someone asked if I would want to be beaten by a girl. Well of course not, at least not if we're not on our first date, then its mandatory to let her win.

©Algona Upper Des Moines 2003

Re: Girls vs. boys #53514 12/12/03 03:05 PM
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Link to below story

Field Hockey Remains Controversial Sport For Males

by Eric Adler

CHATHAM — Eleven years ago, a Chatham High School sophomore with immeasurable courage wasn’t trying to make history. He wasn’t attempting to pull a gag or prove a point about how a guy could play on a girls,’ athletic team. Niles Draper was just playing field hockey, the sport he loves.

As the first male student athlete in the Commonwealth to do so, Draper paid the price, enduring a myriad of mockery and taunts. Everyone from the football jocks to furious parents of daughters on opposing teams had an opinion of Draper, expressing their derision as contentiously as possible.

But Draper fought off the onslaught, on and off the playing field, and won a monumental legal battle, protecting the playing rights of mixed-gender teams. It was a watershed verdict which opened the doors for those like him, who could probably do without the plaid skirt but wore it just the same, all for the satisfaction of enjoying the quick start and stop action played with a hard rubber ball on a smooth grass surface with “J” shaped sticks, instead of “L” shaped ones with shoulder pads and ice skates.

Now, two male students at Chatham High – freshman Chris Doyle and senior Jesse Flynn - are on the cusp of beginning their varsity field hockey careers. They’re following in Draper’s footsteps, with just as much verve and enthusiasm as Draper once had, all the while realizing that the path down this road wouldn’t have been possible had Draper not made the imprints to guide them in the first place.

“I would’ve never played if it wasn’t for the other guys who played before,” admitted Flynn, in a reference to not only Draper, but Pete Galop, the Blue Devils goal tender during his senior yea, two years ago. “They paved the way for us, and helped us realize it’s alright for guys to play. If I was the first, it would’ve been much harder and honestly, I probably wouldn’t have been inspired to play.”

Doyle looks up to his predecessors with even more worship and respect.

“Niles is my hero. He has been since I started playing in the sixth grade,” said Doyle, who, like his idol, hasn’t heeded the countless jests and jokes, which began the first day he donned the mandatory skirt.

“It’s not too bad anymore. I’ve gone through a bunch of ridicule before, so I’m used to it by now,” Doyle said calmly while shrugging his shoulders. His sophomoric mannerism, ironically, is a testament to his maturity. “Sometimes the girls have it out for me on the field because I’m a guy. You’ll hear players or coaches say certain things which can be devastating, but I just try to ignore it.”

As of last week during pre-season, it was unclear what role Doyle would fit into on Chatham’s 19-member team. Flynn is enough a natural athlete that, despite being a novice to the fall game, has nailed down the starting goalie position, making him exempt in the dress department. Though Flynn, layered with pads, will look more like a tackling dummy than Scottish bagpipe player, it doesn’t change the fact that he’s playing a sport so few of his friends do.

“I’ve always come to the home games and noticed they’ve always had a goalie problem, so I decided to come out,” said Flynn. “A lot of my friends say, ‘you’re playing field hockey? I thought that was a girls sport.’ But I tell them its co-ed. They’re dazed that I’m playing.”

A Brief History

When Title IX, a federal law requiring gender equality, was enacted in 1972, it was largely created to give equal rights to females. But the landmark ruling permitted males just as much rights. If a girl possessed the interest and ability to participate in a sport which is only provided for the boys, the school had an obligation to either provide a team for the girls or allow the girls to participate on the boys' team. The same applies for boys, granting Draper the entitlement to play for the Lady Blue Devils.

After a relatively carefree sophomore season, Draper’s dream turned nightmare in 1992, his junior year. Several teams, including Harwich, Provincetown and Nantucket (part of the now extinct Cape & Islands League), refused to play Chatham, asserting the five-foot-six, 145-pound center halfback posed a “safety threat.”

Teams forfeited games with Chatham, which were not counted as losses. Likewise, the Blue Devils couldn’t benefit from these surrendered contests, unable to count them as wins. Nor could Chatham participate in the post-season state tournament, unless another coed team qualified, an impossibility seeing as no other mixed-gender field hockey team existed on the Cape or Massachusetts at the time.

Frustrated with the situation, Draper’s mother, Sandra Collingwood, sought counsel in Sarah Wunsch, an attorney with the Civil Liberties Union, and sued the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA) that year. Although the Supreme Court ruled earlier that boys shouldn’t be playing on girls teams, Superior Court Judge Gerald O'Neill, in August 1993, determined that the MIAA's mixed-gender rules violated the Massachusetts Equal Rights Amendment (which precedes federal law), disallowing single-gender teams to forfeit without penalty.

As a result, the Blue Devils played a full schedule with Draper in action every game his senior season, though he still bears the scars of a season lost.

“The toughest part was the team suffered because of me,” said the 28-year old Draper, Chatham’s assistant coach for the past four years. “We only played a handful of games that year, and although everyone encouraged me to stay, I knew deep down everyone was missing out because of me. They were cheated of a year.”

In retrospect, Draper sees the merit of his legal triumph in a somewhat different light than he did a decade ago. Back then, he was just happy his team was no longer deprived of their right to play a full slate of games. What Draper is most proud of now isn’t that he set a precedent or broke the mold for male players, like Doyle and Flynn. Draper’s fondest memory, he said, was the overwhelming support he received from teammates and school officials.

“There were times when I think he wanted to quit, only because he felt like he was hurting the team more than he was helping them,” recalls 13-year Chatham Field Hockey coach Kathy Andrews. “But the girls wouldn’t let him. Neither would I. I knew what it felt like to be denied to play a sport, because when I was younger, girls weren’t playing little league. There was no lassie league. There was nothing. I can remember how I felt not being able to do something I really loved to do. I understand the argument of Title XI was to get more opportunities for women, but as it says, no person shall be discriminated against because of their sex, so it’s got to work both ways.”

The biggest fear of those who felt boys shouldn’t be playing girls sports was that that Draper’s case would open the floodgates, and males would begin stealing the limited number of available positions as well as playing time from females, thus defeating the purpose of Title XI, not to mention males would physically dominate the girls’ sport. As former Harwich High School athletic director Fred Ebbett told the Wall Street Journal in 1998, “If you open the door for one [boy], you open the door for everybody.”

Though more boys in Massachusetts are playing field hockey, including Dennis-Yarmouth and Sandwich – a school which originally refused to play Draper and Chatham- the sport has remained predominately female. The reason, Ebbett suggested, was that Draper was required to wear a skirt.

“That kind of limited the number of boys who wanted to go out for the team,” he said.

Weighing the Opposition

Ebbett’s speculation came true, with only a handful of male field hockey players on the Cape currently, and around 30 in the state. But the campaign to preclude boys from playing on girls teams hasn’t ended, nor has the voice of the opposition.

Entering her 33rd year in coaching, Harwich field hockey head coach Cheryl Poore led the crusade against mixed-gender teams, along with former Provincetown field hockey coach Dave Reinhardt. Though they lost the battle, Poore still has hopes of one day putting an end to coed teams.

“As soon as we object to boys on girls teams, people start saying, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. But mixed-gender teams were never the intention of Title IX,” said Poore. “Title IX should provide equality of opportunity, not the exact same opportunities. Boys have distinct muscular advantage, and strength overcomes in almost any sport. It’s not an equal playing field when boys are on girls teams.”

“We’re not saying boys shouldn’t play field hockey,” said Poore. “In my heart I believe boys should be playing field hockey. It’s the greatest sport in the world, so let’s provide it for them, but separately. Let’s help them set up intramurals and club teams to get their own leagues started.”

The problem with this idea, she noted, is that it’s easier for schools to allow a few guys on a girls team and vice versa than to spend the money on facilities and equipment to start a new sport. The school took the opposite approach several years ago, however, when the girls threatened to disrupt single-gender male teams.

“In 1974, girls started showing a huge interest in soccer and men didn’t want them on their teams,” said Poore. “Instead of allowing girls to join the boys teams, the coaches and athletic directors immediately began starting club sports for the girls which expanded so rapidly that by the third year there were many Cape teams playing a full schedule. We could be doing the same for boys and field hockey.”

MIAA officials were unavailable to comment on whether they’re willing to legally fight the matter any longer. But judging by MIAA Associate Director Virginia Anderson comments in a Girls Volleyball Coaches Association newsletter this past winter, they seem to be.

“We have consistently fought in the courts to prevent boys from playing on girls teams. Not only were we unsuccessful,” Anderson told the MGVCA, “but the effort spurred counter suits against us from the parents of boys.”

This statement, along with the MIAA’s previous actions, did not sit well with Poore and other advocates against mixed-gender teams.

“The MIAA dropped the ball on this matter, because they put so much time and money into the lawsuit and didn’t continue to peruse it. It’s an issue that keeps coming back, and the MIAA should research ways to get around the Equal Rights Amendment. We’ve got enough injury stories to be a deterrent for mixed-gender teams, so one way would be to get doctors to declare field hockey a contact sport,” said Poore. “If field hockey is declared a contact sport, the safety issue would somehow supersedes the Equal Rights Amendment.”

The reason, Poore explained, is because if a girl joins the football team, she does so under her own willingness (based on her equal protection rights as defined by the 14th Amendment). But when a boy joins the girls team, none of the girls on the team - or opposing teams - are given a choice in the matter.

While the idea to pursue the safety issue again under a new angle exists only in rumor, Poore hopes in the next year it’ll come to fruition. In the meantime, Poore has tried to avoid playing coed teams. Though she can’t escape mixed-gender contests within her team’s South Shore League, Harwich began dropping games with D-Y. The Rough Riders, however, have two scheduled regular season games this year against neighboring, non-league foe Chatham.

“My policy is to not play non-league games or scrimmages against teams with boys. I didn’t find out that Chatham had two boys on the team until two weeks ago, so there’s nothing we can do about it now,” said Poore. “We’ll play Chatham this year, but next year, if we know in advance there’s boys on the team, we won’t be playing them.” She added that Harwich Athletic Director Mark Sugarmeyer has supported her fully in these matters.

“If you look at the physiology between a growing male and female, they’re not the same. Males are bigger, can hit harder and further. Are boys capable of injuring girls? Yes, we have documented proof and it happens time and again,” said Poore, alluding to Sarah Doherty, a former goal tender on Harwich who was hit in the knee by Draper’s shot. Doherty went on to play Division IA field hockey, but her playing days as a scholarship student at Duke University were cut short when she could no longer deal with the pain. Poore maintains Doherty’s recurring injury was directly related to the initial blast she took from Draper.

“Even boys who have never played field hockey and don’t have the same skill level can be overpowering and dominating,” said Poore. “This common sense argument has been suspended, and it’s made a farce out of the game.”

Ready To Rumble

Friday’s match up between the two schools – the season opener for both teams - will ignite an old rivalry, in a game which will most likely pose no safety concern at all for the host Rough Riders. Though Flynn is five-foot-nine and 185 pounds, he’ll be the one attacked, not the attacker, with balls whizzing by him on scrums and penalty corners. A first baseman on the Blue Devils varsity team, Flynn’s banking on his baseball background to help him out.

“I’m playing goalie with a baseball mentality,” said Flynn. “I just try to get in front of the ball. I’m a decent enough athlete that I felt I could pick it up. But it’s a lot harder than I expected. The ball is traveling pretty fast and you’re only a few feet away. It’s like a fastball being thrown right at you.”

Even as a field player, Doyle is, in many ways, less of a safety threat. Competitors fearing damaging body checks will have their worries put to rest once they step onto the field with the slender freshman, who’s five-foot-nine, 125-pound frame is in stark contrast to Ryan Sherburne, the six-foot-five, 205-pound brute who led the Western Mass. Mohawk Trail Regional High School to the Division One state semifinals in 2001.

Doyle said his aim was to improve his stick work and handling this season. Flynn has much loftier goals.

“I definitely want a couple of shutouts, especially against Harwich, because they’ve given us so many problems in the past,” Flynn said of the Rough Riders, whose offensive powerhouse produced an undefeated, 17-0 regular season record on their way to capturing the South Sectional Championship last year. Flynn will more than have his work cut out for him, seeing that the Rough Riders trounced the Blue Devils 12-0 opening day last season and 6-0 a few weeks after that. Despite Harwich’s 39-2-3 record over the past two years, he remains optimistic.

“I really think I can shut them out. Our defense is looking really good and if I really try hard I can do it. I think we can definitely beat them,” declared Flynn.

As for the heckles and jeers, both Doyle and Flynn understand it isn’t a matter of if it’ll come, but when and how frequent. They’re fully prepared for all the name calling, most of which will be far more derogatory than just “sissy,” as Draper remembers.

“The whole soccer team from Provincetown would take off from practice to come down and shout at me from the sidelines,” recalled Draper. “You absolutely heard everything, that’s why after a while it wasn’t insulting. There’s nothing specific I can really tell those guys. They have great attitudes and they’re on the field, so they’ve already made the first step.”

“Of course the criticism is going to come up. I expect it full on, but I think I’ll use it as comic relief,” said Flynn. “I’ll laugh about it, because it’s really not a big deal. And after all, field hockey was originally a guy’s sport.” (9/4/03)
---------------------------------------------

In my opinion, if girls can play "guys only" sports, guys should be able to play "girls only" sports.

Here at Free State High, home of the weird, we have had a girl out for football for 2 years, a girl out for wrestling for 2 years, and two guys who have tried to go out for volleyball only to be ridiculed by male athletes, female participants and parents of both. Both those guys are playing volleyball on full rides in college now.

The way to solve all of this is to not put gender roles on sports; make them all coed. I mean, my interpretation on Title IX, comes as not only haveing equal opportunities for gender, but also for race and the like. By that interpretation, we should have:
White male, black male, Hispanic male, Asian male, Asian female, black female, Hispanic female and white female teams in each sport in all schools.

If girls want to play football or wrestle, why not? If guys want to play volleyball or do gymnastics, why not, also?

Making all sports coed may prove to all who the best athletes really are in all sports. I mean, the best player plays, no matter the race, gender or whatever.

My $0.02, yay.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53515 12/12/03 05:03 PM
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jmadden Offline
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What century is this? A minor reality check leaves little doubt, boys and girls (men and women)compete against each other in all walks of life.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53516 12/12/03 06:03 PM
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Prant Garker Offline
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It seems as if the Iowa article lacks any organization and point. Thus, we are all dumber for having read his article. I award him no points, and may God have mercy on his soul.

But on a more serious note, I have always subscribed to the "Boys Rule, Girls Drool" belief. Does this mean that girls shouldn't wrestle with guys? Absolutely not. Does it mean that they drool? Yes.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53517 12/12/03 06:04 PM
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truck Offline
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You must not have a daughter. I wouldn't want a high school boy wrestling my high school daughter. It's fine in kids wrestling and all, but once puberty hits that's another story.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53518 12/12/03 06:47 PM
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I hope I don't have a daughter.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53519 12/12/03 07:28 PM
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Prant-

Prior to becoming a first-time dad six months ago - I wanted a SON. So we could wrestle, play ball, etc..

However, God in His infinite wisdom and goodness gave me a daughter. Now I can say daughters rock.

Boys tend to be knuckleheads. I know this from first hand experience. I have a daughter. I am a man. And I have taught elementary PE for 15 years. 98 perecent of my discipline problems are from boys.

HOWEVER, wrestling rocks and my daughter will never wrestle competitively against boys. I'm hoping that someday she will rule the world of women's tennis.

So, Prant - don't discount daughters until you have one yourself.

I enjoy my daughter tremendously and I hope the next off spring will be a boy - but if its not - that ok - because daughters rock.


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
Re: Girls vs. boys #53520 12/12/03 08:22 PM
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Marbla Offline
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living in a society that is degrading to women - and at the same time a society in which it's politically incorrect to be male - this is quite the touchy subject.

i tend to agree that women aren't as good as athletes as some guys. but you have to realize that if someone, no matter what sex, wants to wrestle, then they should be allowed to.

think back to the PGA event in which Annika Sorenstam competed against a field of men. Vihjay Sihng acting quite the baby, saying that he would withdraw if he got paired with her. What are you so afraid of, Vihjay? If men are so physically superior, which i believe they are, then why not let a woman compete against you?

i realize that golf and wrestling are two completely different activities, but this is the exact same concept.


edit: i go to hutchinson high school with cody garcia. he had the opportunity to wrestle with the nations finest women wrestlers at the olympic training center a while ago. while he said that these girls weren't as great as athletes (slower, weaker, etc) they had far superior technique than most guys that he's wrestled. food for thought.


Seth Farley
Re: Girls vs. boys #53521 12/12/03 08:25 PM
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You go dwelsh. I am in the exact same boat as you only 5 months along. My daughter will never wrestle, but God willing she is the best softball player in the world. Hats off to you and your daughter. Daughters rock.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53522 12/12/03 08:28 PM
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Marbla Offline
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my sister is about to have a daughter...
Quote:
What century is this? A minor reality check leaves little doubt, boys and girls (men and women)compete against each other in all walks of life.
are you implying some sort of "battle of the sexes"?


Seth Farley
Re: Girls vs. boys #53523 12/12/03 10:21 PM
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Dwelsh-

I think you misunderstood my last post. The MAIN reason I said "I hope I don't have a daughter" is mainly because I'm 18, unemployed, and extremely immature. As you know, being one of the more well-known forum members, I have tons of groupies. I simply said "I hope I don't have a daughter" to imply that it was my wish to not have unknowingly impregnated one of these women.

And to Truck--if you don't want your boy wrestling a girl in high school, that's fine. However, I do not believe it is your place to tell anyone's daughter that they can't wrestle because you're overprotective of your own kid.

That's just like you depriving me of the right to post on the forum because you dislike witty banter. Just because you disagree with witty banter doesn't mean that everyone else should have to suffer.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53524 12/12/03 10:44 PM
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Truck...what if you have a daughter and you allow her to wrestle up to pubrity and she is really good. Is it fair to her to make her quit something that she is really good at because she is a girl? I don't think I could do it. My daughter wants to wrestle and I have tried to discourage her because of all the hateful things that are said about female wrestlers, but if she still wants to next year, I will let her. If she wants to continue as she gets older, I will not step in her way. She is only 5 now, so I have a few years before I have to worry too much!!

Re: Girls vs. boys #53525 12/12/03 11:17 PM
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Finish Offline
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umm.. i'd have to vote no to the girls wreslting issue...
not that they can't do it, but it's a comfort thing i believe.. i had to wrestle a girl once when i was little. and it wasn't all that fun. you just dont' know what to do, or what to grab for that matter.
i'm not saying that they can't do it by any means though. we had a first year girl wrestler go to state once..
buuut, i just don't really think that it should be co-ed. guys can't play volley ball.. not that i'd want to, but we'd dominate. so why girls and wrestling? why not football?

Re: Girls vs. boys #53526 12/13/03 12:39 AM
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I am going to be a first time father in March, we dont know if its a boy or girl yet. However, sarah and I have had some serious descussions about this subject.
Her saying there is no way if it is a girl it will ever wrestle. Saying think of everything that will be said or what might happen.
I on the other hand am willing to if the child wants to let her wrestle until she doesnt want to any more. I am one of those that dont know if I would let a girl quit because of what others are saying but because thats what the girl wants to do.
I will mention that I went to the Blue Valley West JV tournament last week and saw a number of girls wrestling. I know you are saying there is a difference between JV and V but if they want to wrestle let them do it. Dont say you cant wrestle because your getting to old and they might touch you wrong. She knows what she is getting into if she goes out after she started years ago.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53527 12/13/03 12:40 AM
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Hey guys I appreciate the fact that you have girls, because I have 2 myself. I, too, don't agree with girls wrestling boys but unless we continue to step up and establish girls wrestling girls may never get a fair shake at the sport that so many of them and us love. The only problem is you might have just removed future USA Olympians out of the hat. In case you didn't know that there is an all womens team for the state and girls is very big in other states. We took 16 girls to Minnesota last year and brought back 16 All Americans with 4 champions. This year we have secured funding for a chartered bus to wrestle at USA/FILA Nationals. We have girls from 4 to 26 yrs old.It's also the feature sport at the Olympics this year. Texas has all girl wrestling in middle and high schools, with Michigan, Minnesota,Pennsylvania, Montana,Hawaii,and California working on bringing it to their state. So don't give Up on having a wrestler even if it's a girl. " GIRLS WRESTLING DOES ROCK"
(THINK ABOUT IT)


Also we have the ability to get funding for 2 complete teams of girls for Cadets and Juniors to go to Fargo this summer. So all you middle school and high school girls contact us at kansaskrusaders@yahoo.com if you have an interest in going to Fargo next year.

COACH ED
KANSAS KRUSADERS
(KANSAS ALL WOMENS STATE WRESTLING TEAM)

Re: Girls vs. boys #53528 12/13/03 09:00 AM
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This is a tough one. I have a daughter who was a 4 year letter winner in college and understands competition. As a father, I want her to have every opportunity available to men. I also have a son that wrestles and we all love the sport. I understand as a pastor the issues that come up related to the male, female, touchy, feely issues. As a coach and former, (still struggling) athlete, I understand the horror of things like title IX. With all of that said, I also believe that female wrestling may be the salvation or at very least, major help of our sport. It helps bring attention to the sport and may be the very thing that gets colleges to start new wrestling programs. It could be in some ways like women’s soccer, a way to bring a new light, recognition, and respect to the sport. While there are limitations due to the physical make up between male and female athletes, I am reminded by Coach John Wooden’s comments that women’s basketball is played in the most pure form of anyone who plays the game. Many women overcome barriers, and thus excel at the technical side of wrestling and sports. While they may not be able to match up in strength with an equally weighted male, they may very well have technical skills that are superior and thus make for a great match and in many cases, a victory against a male athlete. Coach Ed and the women he assists have probably done more to help our sport than any of us may realize, so for that, I would say thanks. I used to tell my son that if he lost to a girl he would have to kiss her, being 14 now that approach does not work. However, I hope he does not see sex on the mat, hopefully, sees an opponent and he does his best to defeat them, within the rules of course. I know this does not resolve the Girl vs. Guy thing, but I remember a time when women did not do many things they do now and frankly, I think they have done quite well. One last note, Prant, I have never met you but I really enjoy your posts, I would hope that you would know though if you have a daughter, or even a chance of that. Hope you don’t need a refresher course on the sex ed thing.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53529 12/13/03 09:02 AM
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RichardDSalyer Offline
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Two High Schools Girls Wrestle Each Other In Boys Tournament!

Updated Friday, December 12 at 6:00 AM

Wrestling tourney to offer Hall County history
By Jeff Hart

FLOWERY BRANCH - History will be made Saturday at Flowery Branch High School.

For the first time ever in Hall County, two female wrestlers will square off in a high school sanctioned event when the Falcons' Rashona Colbert and Johnson's DeAnn Hudson tangle in the 103-pound weight class in the Flowery Branch Duals.

The round-robin, six-team tournament actually begins Friday but the two schools are not scheduled to wrestle until the fifth round Saturday.

The team with the best record after the five matches will be crowned champion and then the individual wrestlers will be seeded according to tournament match records in the individual weight-class tournament.

Along with the Falcons and Knights, Class AAAAA Meadowcreek, Class AAAA Cedar Shoals, West Hall and a collection of wrestlers from every team to fill a spot vacated when several teams backed out will participate.

Johnson and Flowery Branch met last week in a dual match but Hudson was still recovering from an appendectomy and having a cyst removed from her ovaries and was not able to suit up. She returned over the weekend and went 1-1 in two matches.

Both Johnson coach Garry Glenn and Falcons coach Shane Lancaster are anxious to see history. And then move on.

"It's interesting in that I don't think it's ever been done in Hall County," Glenn said. "Both the girls just want to be treated the same as the other guys on their teams so I think they're probably ready to get this out of the way, so to speak. But it should be something to watch."

"It will be the first time Rashona has wrestled another girl so I think she's interested to see how it goes," Lancaster said.

According to both coaches, the tournament itself is wide open.

The Falcons nipped Johnson in their dual match last week having to go to six tiebreakers to decide it. West Hall has a solid team and Cedar Shoals is always a top contender in Class AAAA. Meadowcreek may be a little down, Lancaster said, but is still good.

"This should be a very exciting tournament. I don't think there's clear-cut favorite. Anyone could win this," Lancaster said.


Richard D. Salyer
Re: Girls vs. boys #53530 12/13/03 09:43 AM
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Nigel Isom Offline
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Ha ha, these post are way to long to read. Anyway im completly for female wrestler. As most of the real wrestlers know the best wrestler have both a mixture of speed, strength, and above all technique. Giving all of these a girl can certinaly compete with boys. Honestly I don't think females should pay football with the boys just because Its is all physical and its hard for them to match up. I can honestly say that I used to get beat by a girl who wrestled in your kids club my first year of wrestling. Her name was Sarah Roper and she beat the crap out of me. I will alwasy remember that but I was young enough to not care that I was getting beat by a girl


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Girls vs. boys #53531 12/13/03 04:30 PM
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Mat rat Offline
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Come on guys wake up! This issue of men vs women has been around since the beginning of time. Women have always had to fight to recieve equal rights and respect from a male dominated society and this carries over into sports. There was a time just 40 years ago when women weren't even allowed to play sports like basketball and in States like Oklahoma, some girls in the late 70's early 80's were confined to half court basketball because the male dominated leadership believed they were too fragile physically to handle running up and down a basketball court. What a crock. Today, there are opportunities for girls at all levels of competition including a professional league. Is there a physical difference, of course, no one is denying that. Guys will be stronger and faster physically once they hit puberty but they are not necessarily superior mentally or technically which are two huge elements of wrestling. A good example of this is a teenage girl from Woodward, Oklahoma, Joey Miller. If any of you have seen her wrestle, you know what I am talking about. There was a 5 year old girl in Texas last year that was head and shoulders above 99% of the boys she wrestled and there is another one in Dallas this year that is just as good. My daughter outperformed most boys in every sport she played until she was about 12 when the boys started hitting puberty. I worked with her just as much as I did with my boys and I did not limit what she could do based on her gender. She worked harder, was more technical, mentally prepared and dedicated than most boys she competed against. She grew up in the 70's and 80's before wrestling was an option for girls but her daughter's deserve the opportunity to compete in that sport if they so choose and they shouldn't have to compete against boys. This is a sport that girls can and are succeeding in just like basketball in the 70's. They deserve middle school, high school, and collegiate opportunities just like the boys. Texas is in its infancy in comparison to Kansas and they made it a priority to put girls wrestling in middle and high school programs. Instead of complaining about girls competing with guys, do something about it and give them their own teams. I know some of you will say, there aren't enough girls in the kids wrestling arena to provide girls divisions. But I say to you that there would be if girls knew that when they reach middle school and high school age, there will be female programs for them to participate in. Girls know that with the system in place, the only future they have resides in the boys' programs where they will recieve alot of negative attention so only the best stay in the sport that long. The wrestling community needs to get past this idea that wrestling is just a male sport. It's not. Girls are capable of exceling in this sport just like every other sport that was supposedly just for males. Our girls deserve the same opportunities as our boys. The answer is not to intimidate, harass and try to make them feel inferior in the boys leagues, it is to give them their own leagues. Until we do this, we are sending the message to our girls that they are not as important as boys and they are not equals and that in my opinion is morally WRONG.

Re: Girls vs. boys #53532 12/13/03 04:41 PM
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CoachEd Offline
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Amen! If anyone wants on the bandwagon, we have plenty of room.

Coach Ed

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