OK I was bored & stuck at home today with the snow, so I looked through all of the brackets. There was talk earlier this year about consolidating the state tournaments from 4 divisions to 3 divisions. Based on the records of kids in this years' state tournaments, I would say there may be some justification for combining the 5A and 6A divisions.

I counted 19 undefeated wrestlers in the state tournaments. Of these, 5 are in 3A, 7 in 4A, 3 in 5A, and 4 in 6A.

There are 31 wrestlers with just one loss (11 in 3A, 10 in 4A, 6 in 5A, and 4 in 6A)

This alone, to me, would be enough proof to consider consolidating 5A and 6A into one tournament because it would even out the number of elite (for lack of a better word) wrestlers in each division (assuming you consider 0 or 1 losses to be an "elite" wrestler). If 5A and 6A were combined, that would put 16-17 undefeated or 1-loss wrestlers in each division.

Then I looked at it from the other end of the spectrum by counting the number of losing records in each division. I know this happens on occasion, but it seems like it should be pretty rare since the state tournaments should be reserved only for the best wrestlers. I was a little shocked at the numbers on this. There are 61 wrestlers in the state tournament with losing records!! Nothing against these kids, they still earned their way to the tournament. But the proportion of losing records is highly skewed to the 5A and 6A tournaments. 3A has 10, 4A has 3, 5A has 22, and 6A has 26.

I would welcome any comments/thoughts on this. And I'll put in my vote again for having Salina host at least the 4A state tournament in the future. And if 5A/6A were combined, Salina could probably handle both tournaments simulatenously. But that's another topic.

Good luck at state everybody.

321A is just as tough as 4A if you look at all wrestlers, but I'm giving it to 4A, on the strength of their champions.

I do not neccessarily know if combining 5 and 6A would even out the "elite" wrestlers. The theory makes sense but part of why some of the records for the 5 and 6A guys seem less flashy than others can be explained to a dgree. At least on the east side of the Topeka line on over a lot of these "elite" guys beat up on one another throughout the season. Also, some of the bigger schools in the Kansas City area wrestle in some big tournaments and even cross over the state line into Missouri for some tourneys and matches. Even the 4A and 5A schools had some big time meets this year. The Dick Burns Mat Classic in Bonner Springs touted several wrestlers in 4A, 5A and 6A who all made the state tourney. There was even a team there from Nebraska. Also, the Basehor Linwood Classic was even bigger and had several state qualifiers. Additionally, the Johnson County Classic, Olathe North Invite, WyCo meet and a few others. I'm not saying combining or going to a Grand state is a bad idea, this is just an explanation as to maybe why the records seem skewed. I know the same can be made about a lot of the west side teams beating up on the same guys all throughout the season. Just an opinion!

I think when you get down to the final six wrestlers every class is pretty close in wrestling talent with 6a having the most talent.

By saying this I agree, combining 5a and 6a would provide better wrestling throughout the state tourney for these two classes. 26 wrestlers with losing records is rediculous. No wonder Wichita doesn't want to host this Tourney.

its close between 123a-and 4a. 5 and 6a's dont come near as close. of course every weight has a stud or so, but look at 123a, 145lb of 4a, 152lb and tell me theirs even near as tough as brackets in 5 or 6 a. id have to say 4a, a majority of wrestlers from 4a go on to college and wrestle. ex matt murry, trevor charbenue(spelling), bryce abbey, ryan phillips, buea tillman,austin devoe,and others recently.

SFT, If you are going to say that 4a is tougher than 6a than you are going to have to give a lot more info than that. I agree that the 1234a tournament as a whole is a lot more enjoyable to watch. Every match feels like it has it's own story. The first rounds in 5a and 6a are terrible. If you go down the line of how many wrestlers go onto College or to D1 schools, 5a and 6a will for sure come out ahead.

I got a kick out of the post that said Basehor had several state qualifiers, yeah about 60 of them not to mention over 30 placers and six state champs. Yeah we had a few state qualifiers out there lol.

Its pretty easy to badmouth 5 and 6A until you have to wrestle them. I have coached in all the classes and I honestly did not see a real difference in any of them except just the normal year to year difference in individual kids. The idea that one is inherently different than another is just not a reality. It just comes and goes by the year, hey Hoxie is way up right now, in 92 we beat them at Beloit by 70 points (when I as at Schlagle) It is a year by year deal. 5 and 6A have nothing to defend themselves over, just look at the kids ranked in the nation now in Division I. There are five of them and every one of them is from a 5 or 6A school.

The only reason 5A and 6A wrestlers have bad records is because of the fact that there are so many better wrestlers spread out throughout all the 5A and 6A schools. Whereas you go to 3-2-1A and some schools that you would dual with or whatever pull out some mullet-haired kid who has never wrestled in his life just to fill the position.

Hey snagbreath is that what you call yourself or did someone name you that? If you are going to dog someone, back it up with some names, give some real info. You probably have never seen a 3a dual or have never been to Hays. Your post had to be one of the most ignorant post I have ever heard. I sure would like to see one of the Hoxie boys show you what 321 is all about. You can even pick the weight class. Out, Coach Rees

I believe another reason is the fact that smaller towns have one high school in which all students go to. In the city all your talent is spread out between several schools. I have a kids club and I know goin in that I will produce some good kids (like Newbill) who will not attend Schlagle (the high school where I currently coach at) due to attendance areas etc...

Your record only means so much there is a sayin in wrestling that says "If you havn't been beaten you havn't left far enough away from home!!!"

Hey snag that was a pretty dumb statement about the mullet head thing. Says you are from Hutchinson huh. I remember not very long ago that Hutch couldnt beat anybody let alone the good 321A teams. Doesn't take much to get you all cocky out there does it.

Why don't we stop the conversation about having 5A & 6A consolidate, and we can just settle it all by having a grand state? That way, the kids without stellar records could still make it to state, but we would really find out who is the best.
Any thoughts?

The part I think is really funny is that most of those posts come from towns that are not 5 or 6A. What is the problem. If you are not involved in it or your town is not affected in any possible way then why are you so opinionated about it. That would fit nicely into that none of their business catagory wouldn't it?

Since state is reserved for the "elite" wrestlers and there are never any upsets, why don't we consolidate all 6 classes? We take the 16 wrestlers with the best records, and they qualify for super-state. Well, I guess that could leave some room for error. I mean, there's no way a 25-6 wrestler would EVER beat a 29-3 wrestler. So how 'bout this: only those with perfect records can qualify for state. Or, we could seed out the tournament, and no one would ever have to wrestle. Since there are never any upsets, why don't we just pass out the top 6 medals to the top 6 seeds. That way, no one would even have to make the drive to the tournament.

I think I've finally come up with an end all/be all answer to the 16 out of 32 instead of 16 out of 64 qualifying argument that 321 and 4a continue to use in their justification of having the stronger class and harder regional and state tournaments. Instead of combining 5 and 6a into one class, why don't you just let 5 and 6a wrestle their JV wrestlers along with their varsity guys?? Since the schools are bigger, in theory they would have bigger teams, and as a result be able to fill more JV spots with higher quality kids. This would double the size of the regional and virtually elimiate this argument completely. Now... before the GWAL coaches get on here and say it, let me say that this bigger school/bigger team/more JV kid theory, is just that a theory, I know that there are many 5 and 6a schools that struggle each year with kids convinced that just because the've played basketball all their lives, the kids think that they are going to make millions in the Pros and pay their way through KU on scholarship. It would be nice if more of those kids faced the hard reality that short squatty football players do not make good basketball players and it would also be nice if more football coaches spent time telling their underclassmen about the benefits of wrestling in the offseason to their football careers vs. basketball.

Yeah I think what Prant was trying to say there is that it is not elite to go to state, just a heck of a lot of fun. Was that it? And that all those stuff shirts that think it should be elite can go **** up a rope? Is that what you were saying Prant:).

I AGREE WITH MYSTERY MAN ON THE SUBJECT THAT
SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE. I THINK WE
SHOULD MAKE TWO WRESTLING DIVISIONS.
1. WOULD BE FOR ALL CLASSES, 14
WEIGHT DIVISIONS, ALL RECORDS, AND WE WILL
WRESTLE. EVERYTHING SETTLED ON THE MAT.THE
WAY IT IS NOW.

2. WOULD BE FOR THE GUYS WHO THINK THAT ONLY
PEOPLE WITH GOOD RECORDS GET TO WRESTLE, OR
THAT ANY CLASS REALLY HAS AN ADVANTAGE OVER
ANY OTHER, OR THAT WEST KANSAS IS BETTER THAN
EAST KANSAS( OR VISE VERSA). AND I THIS
WRESTLING DIVISION THEY WILL DEBATE WHO
SHOULD BE STATE CHAMPION.THEY COULD START OUT
WITH LEAGUE COMPETITION, THE REGIONALS, THEN
SUB-STATE, THEN STATE (IN THEIR OWN CLASS OF
COURSE), THEN GRAND STATE, THEN THEY COULD ADVANCE
TO SUPER-ELITE-ALL CLASS-NO WEIGHT CLASS-NO HOLDS
BARRED-WRESTLING DEBATE STATE. WHERE ONLY THE TOP
FOUR CAN PLACE, THE WINNER GETTING A TROPHY THAT
STAND 4 FT TALL, THE OTHER THREE GET PLAQUES.
OH YEAH AND ONLY THE ONES WITH UNDEFEATED RECORDS
GET TO SAY THEY COMPETED AT STATE, BECAUSE NO ONE
ELSE DESERVES TO BE THERE, UNLESS OF COURSE THEY
GO HOXIE. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE UNDISPUTED CHAMPS
OF WRESTLING DEBATE.

lol well that is a lot of new and novel ideas to this little debate I think. Hmmmm lot to chew on there for sure.

HA! I believe most quotes come from schools in 4-3-2-1a because they are the wrestlers recieving unfair treatment.

The problem is that only 25 percent of these kids qualify for state where as 50% of 6-5a kids qualify. If 6-5a doesn't want to join classes together to make things fair, then maybe Kansas should look at two alternatives.

1) split 4a and 3-2-1a into TWO more divisions so that 50% of the wrestlers qualify.

2) allow 32 state qualifiers instead of just 16 in the 4a and 3-2-1a divisions so that 50% of the wrestlers qualify.

I understand from previous posts that 6-5a wrestlers with 6-30 records deserve to wrestle at state because it is good for self-confidence, helps make money, etc. So why can't 4a and 3-2-1a wrestlers get the same oppurtunities they would get if they wrestled at a bigger school? Its ignorant to say things are fair and settle it with a grand state blah blah blah. (Grand State is another topic altogether which would not settle the issue of whether or not its easier to get to state in 6-5a)

These 4-3-2-1a kids complain about unfair treatment because they are getting left at home with 30-5 to 18-18 records where as over 20 kids in 5a alone qualified for state with losing records. I know lots of non-state qualifying wrestlers from 4321a who not only beat qualifiers from 6-5a but also beat state medalists. So yes it is these kids buisness about how easy it is to qualify at 5-6a when they are "often" the tougher wrestlers but left at home with a broken heart.

AND it is also unfair to seed 6-5a wrestlers with losing records over 4-3-2-1a kids with winning records just because the 6-5a kid was a state qualifier the year before. Yea i am done ranting now.