I have a six year old that would love to go to State. He wrestled at VC at 8U A bracket and took 2nd, so we are hoping he has a shot at making it. He then had an injury at practice that looked like it would end his season and was very unhappy that he wouldnt have the chance. Now after finding out his ankle is not broken, it looks like he will get his chance. Don't underestimate the importance of going to State for a 6 year old. Some of them work extremely hard to succeed and should be given the same opportunities as the older kids.

again 6u kids do not belong at state. Why move mats into another room for the older kids, they have worked hard for years and DESERVE to be rcognized wrestling in the big room. All this would do is force some of the older kids out if we used single age divisions. The system works fine now why fix it if it's not broke. The only way 6U should even be considered for state is if they wrestle in the weigh in room. Save the big show for the ones that have worked hard for years and deserve to be rcognized

If I counted right there were 92 six and under kids at Ottawa Last year. That is 5.6% of 1,654 kids this year. There were 226 kids at 16 and under - state qualifiers last year. A few more were beat out at subdistricts. Also, I know many of the High Schoolers do not show up. If that number (92 and the participation rate 5.6%) of six and under is any indication of the parents not sending there kids to Ottawa for the State Championship - Those numbers might speak for the majority of parents feeling towards at state level tourny. I know there are a few six year olds that go to the 8 & under state and most of them go home disappointed. I still believe for the most part 6 and under state championship is to young for baseball, football, basketball, tennis, track, boxing, or whatever.

Coach Sean

Saying a 6 year old does not deserve to go to state because he hasnt worked hard enough or long enough to have earned it is a poor argument in my opinion. I have a 6 year old in his third year.He has a strong competitive nature and works hard at practice and at home with his 11 year old brother. I'm not saying all 6 year olds are ready for the kind of intense compition that happens at the state level,but there are several little guys who are already serious about winning. The amount of time put into a sport does not intitle you to a state tournament you earn that right by your performance. A wrestler could compete for ten years and never make it past districts.Just because a wrestler is 6 dose not mean he dos'nt have desire to win state. Alot of little wrestlers have seen older siblings compete at the state level.Last year my son told me he didnt want to try to go to state,this year at 6 he says he want to win it. All Im saying is dont under estimate our smallest wrestlers. Do they deserve a spot at the expocenter? Ask my 6 year old.
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

What i am saying is why penalize a kid who has worked hard for 10-12 years to become a good wrestler and compete at the highest level in our state. Who deserves this chance more a kid who has worked for 1-2 years and still has 10 years of wrestling left to compete at state or a kid who has competed for 10-12 years and this is there last hurah so to speak. I vote for the kid who has put in 10-12 years and who can't compete at this level again

I think some of the reason for low participation at 6 year old championship at Ottawa is that it is the day after districts. If older siblings wrestled at districts alot of parents want a day off. Telling a 6 year old they will be wrestling in 8& under may discourage a few from wanting to try the state path
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

I'm not saying I want to elimanate the 16's they deserve their spot. But I also believe there are some scrappy 6's who may enjoy the parade of wrestlers. How room would be made, I dont know.If it never happens I'm sure the little guys will persevere.
Jon Murray
PWC

I wouldn't mind as long as the older kids are not left out. All of the talk i have heard is to eliminate 14u and 16u weight classes or to eliminate 16u all together. That is why i am against it. If there is room for everyone then why not have them.

The last thing we should do is to eliminate any wrestlers from compitition. We need to mantain the intrest we help to develope as coaches and parents.
One post mentioned the tears shed from little wrestlers, I've noticed that at all ages. Competitive people big and small hate to lose. Especially if they are used to winning.
There is another post entitled "what do you like about wrestling?". When I asked my 6 year old he said "winning, getting 1st, and its fun
Jon Murray
Pwc

I had to go back to the 2003 Archives to get some info on this very same topic. Here it is and there was a whole bunch more.

Member Member # 21 posted April 03, 2003 09:30 PMApril 03, 2003 09:30 PM This topic has been discussed at great length for the last four or five years and it has ran off people from coming to the state meeting because they would argue about it for so long. District II has been pushing to add 6&U at state the other three districts have been apposed.Now not everyone in district II is in favor nor are all the people in the other districts apposed. But last year we voted for 6&U at state and it got turned down 70% to 30%. This year was the first state meeting without discussing it and it was nice.The main reason everyone used was it put to much pressure on the 6 yr. olds to wrestle at state.


smokeycabin Member Member # 17 posted April 04, 2003 04:53 AMApril 04, 2003 04:53 AM 6 & UNDER STATE IS TO YOUNG PERIOD. I know I am not speaking for everyone. I have coached youth wrestling for over twenty years. I have coached 5 year olds and I have coached college all-americans. I also vote at the state body meeting and I will never vote for 6 & under state. We do not need to put false expectations into these young childrens minds. A 6 & under state champ may not make it back to state for another 4 years or ever. This creates false expectations in the child and in the parents who think their kid is the toughest roughest rumbler this side of the Mississippi. My son was an pretty decent wrestler at six and under and won the majority of his matches in the two tournaments I let him pick to enter. When he graduated to 8 & under and he was all of 7 years old he was getting it handed to him pretty hard by some eight year olds. When he was eight he dealt some of the 7 year olds a whipping. I think as a whole that is the natural progression the majority of kids make. I as a coach do not want to burn out the young participants when he or she is in eigth grade. I have seen it all to often that a parent is trying to create a national/olympic champion. Your child is not you and never will be you. So lets stop all this nonsense for a 6 & under world champ. I have seen parents run their kids out of baseball, football, track, tennis, golf, etc. Do not live your life through your childs eyes.I have seen parents way out of hand watching the six and under group and our sport doesn't need that kind of pressure put on these young people.The boys and girls will grow up at their own pace - not in your or my time frame. THE END!

Very well said smoky cabin I agree 100%

WOW sorry smokey cabin. Didnt realize I was trying to create an olympic champ or living through my child. Both my sons love to wrestle and my older son made it to state last year and is getting it handed to him this year at 12& under. Now he must be let down and wont want to wrestle anymore! I must be trying to run him out of the sport. Thank goodness you have insight I dont or at 36 years of age I would continue to live through my 6 year old.
All I know is when my little guy wins he jumps in my arms with joy. The last 2 seasons my wife and I would ask our son if he wanted to go to a tournument if he said no he didnt wrestle, we didnt make him wrestle. We were stuck living through our older son on those weekends. This year our little guy has wanted to hit every tournament and has won 6 out of 8. Now I have some experiance and know that next year will most likley be tough for him at 8& under. I hope that dosnt hurt his chances for the olympics. All I knom for sure is he likes to compete and if hes tired he will tell us just like he did last year. From my experiance coaching you cant force a child to be competitive either they are or you wait for them to develope. Sorry for the nonsense about 6 year old wrestlers.
Jon Murray
PWC

smokeycabin,

There were 92 placers at Ottawa six and under kids at Ottawa Last year. 16 weight classes and as many as 30 kids in some brackets. I'm just guessing but pretty sure there was well over 300 kids.

If you did not know that was a results page and not a list of entries.

They do list only the placers of the tournament. The place earned is the number just to left of name.

If we placed a pole for six and under state - you would need to survey 200 parents who have kids from each age division to get a representative sample. Not just the parents of kids who are currently 6 and under. Each voting member could only vote in one age division if they have more than 2 kids. How do you develop the mailing list for the random sample? You would have to do it three years in a row to get a rolling average. It would be similar to forcasting school enrollments.

Pancake,

Sorry, I made a mistake and I was wondering when someone would catch that. If 300 hundred was the number that is still 18% participation rate. I am only human. I did not create the statistic 70% NO to 30% YES vote for 6 & Under State Tournament three years ago at the State Meeting.

Coach Sean

Smokeycabin,

Nobody is saying if a 6U division is added at state that you must have your child participate. It would be perfectly fine for those who ofject to keep your kids at home. So, why do you feel you need to make that decision for everyone else? If you are worried about other parents burning their kids out it won't be a problem with your child and he will reap the benefit when he's in high school.

It is not my intention to eliminate opportunities for these youngsters. If a few of the parents around the mats for 6 & under would act like the majority of parents IN THE STANDS. I call it "The Grizzley Sow Syndrom" Where Moms and Dads are initially there to protect their cubs, but then end up fighting with other Moms, Dads, Grandparents, Coaches, Refs, and even Kids from the other team. It is very hard to coach and help someone's child when a parent is screaming in my ear quit crying, get up, get mad, etc. These verbal coaching techniques are not in the books on coaching wrestling. I have heard MUCH MUCH worse than the above mentioned but I'll keep that out of the forum. Have you ever seen the number of coaches per kid at the eight and under state tournament in each corner. Some of those coaches have a camera, camcorder, - some (1/2 or more) of those in the corner do not have a coach’s card. Could you imagine the 6 & under. I hope that day does not come. Some parents have "Press Passes" - I did not know Kansas had that many local papers following kids wrestling. I do not want to get into any personal attacks or discussions about any specific kid, family or club. 5 and 6 year olds - yes 1/3 to 1/2 half of their life they have been in diapers.

Coach Sean

My kids have been coached by smokeycabin for more than 8 years and trust me, his intentions on keeping 6 and under out of state are coming from his years of dealing with the Novice kids. When we joined the club we were told he was the best when it comes to working with Novice kids. Our club (STA) is a success because of smokeycabin and our Novice program.

By the way, he's pretty good with the open kids too!

wrestlingmom

I hate to say this but will, I believe that the only ones saying the above statement are people opposed to the Under 6 format. I have not heard a single supporter of U 6 support this position. There has been much discussion on this in the past, including solutions of how to include state for everyone, and even this year a proposed solution that would likely allow everyone in the "big" room.

I believe everything that smokeycabin has said and back him up. Let's look at Kansas at the high school level. Where are the top wrestling towns and programs? Do those wrestling towns push young kids as hard as in other towns? I know of two top wrestling towns who LIMIT the tournaments a young wrestler can participate on. Why? Because they have discovered that they were loosing some very good and talented wrestlers from burnout. They also felt is was more important to teach them the basic moves well than to worry about winning at the tournaments.