There has been some confusion regarding the pinning area and defensive pins in a couple of the threads in this forum. I have created a representation of the diagram found in the NFHS rule book concerning the pinning area. I cannot post the one from the rulebook because of copyright restrictions. This is good representation of the area covered by the rule book. As you can see the area extends down to near the bottom of the shoulder blades which can be pretty far down for some wrestlers.

I did not post this thread in the Ask The Ref forum because of the rules there. As you can imagine what one ref sees as the bottom of the pinning area can differ from another, and each wrestlers pinning area can be larger or smaller depending on their size. Hope this helps

Yep, that's what I thought, definitely not a pin!

You know one of the moves that gets a lot of attention regarding this subject is the cradle. Alot of wrestlers and their coaches get upset because they get pinned when the top of their shoulders are clearly off the mat. It is a misconception that the pinning area is just the shoulders and the deltoid. In a really tight cradle you will see a good portion of the pinning area lifted off the mat but the bottom part of it stays in contact. (Note: This post has nothing to do with defensive pins)

Who's the scronny dude pictured above?

Actually it is just a random picture that i took off the internet and modified. I would have used my own back, but I didn't want to impress too many people

Yep, that's what I thought, DEFINATELY a PIN!!!

Cradlers get no love with the pins. I don't know how many times I had someone pinned in a cradle and didn't get the call. I guess Nigel will have to ref my fat person matches from now on.

thatis bighead

Nice job Nigel!!! The only "negative" thing I have about this thread is that ANYONE can go to http://www.nfhs.org and purchase a rule book that has all the rules and many pics in the back to clarify those rules!!! These books are just exclusively for refs and coaches only, like we're a secret society and no one is allowed the knowledge of the sacred book! They're even wuite economical too!! A must for any wrestler, coach, parent or fan that truely wants to be educated.

http://www.nfhs.com/index.asp?cmd=showcategory&param_0=75

Shane we know you have all the books so why not share your wisdom.... ohhh wooops.....thats right never mind.

Very good point Shane, but that $7 cost might scare some people, ha ha.

read? you expect a fan to be accountable and actually read? Nah, its funner to rant and rave and act like you know it all when you really dont know sh_t and your too lazy to look it up yourself! ;-)

Wow thats being pretty hard on a fan.... Its even worse when those who have read the rules don't know sh_t!!! :-) and there are more of those than you think! and speaking of acountability, when all a guy has to say is wawawa my whistle,my opinion and my judgement and all theese other stripes agree so get over it. Don't even go online and discuss it because thats ref bashing and thats wrong and i'll remember you and warn you befor you get to the mat.... lol that how it really is. :-)

Ha! To some extent i agree. I know human nature... ALL HAVE SINNED . . . and all continue to sin... Emphasis on the word "ALL".

But, i got to hand it to the stripes - it takes courage and we need them. It is an important and difficult job. They need their little 'cult' club of protection... Without it - they'd get eaten alive by the masses every single match . . .

Yes! I agree with what you agree with. ALL HAVE SINNED..... The refs are very important but not so important that they shouldn't be evaluated or scrutinized, usually the one telling you to go read the book is the one who is clueless. The wrestler is the one who is important here, he is the one who has the difficult job of peforming. When a wrestler doesnt do his job to perfection where does that leave him!! Usually out of the contest. What happens to a ref when he doesnt do his job to perfection?

Last time I checked, being a ref is a job. They're getting paid to make the right calls and not mess up as much as possible because kids work hard to win matches, and it isn't fair when a ref takes it from them.

***Agreed. It isn't fair. Thankfully, it does not happen very often and when it does - i don't think it was the ref's intent. . .

I would love to see a kid get that as a tattoo that says pinning zone or something in it.

Aaron - you go first!

I think I would prefer ... "this side up" ... in the pinning zone!