First of all I’m not opposed to any rules that is in the best interest of a high school wrestler, but I do have some concerns on how the rules are mandated. If you are not aware the 2006-2007 season there will be hydration testing take place prior to the season (alpha weight) or first weigh in prior to practice beginning.

It is my understanding that nobody will be allowed to practice until an administrator or his designee (not a Coach) establishes weight at a proper hydration level. Either by urine color chart or a specific gravity of 1.025 or below. How fun for someone to analyze 65 urine samples! May be the school nurse will step up for this job!

Once the Alpha weight is established the wrestler will fall under the same 10% rule for weight loss (no big deal unless you can’t pass your **** test!) No urine…no practice!

You the must certify at your lowest weight by January 12th. Urine in hand… fully hydrated, before the weight will be considered your certification weight. No urine of proper color you are either done for the season or move up one weight till you pass your test. There are a few exceptions but you have to have these approved by the KSHSAA.

This is when it gets interesting… what if you don’t have half of your weigh-ins at your certified weight? You could be in trouble of making it to a qualifier for state.

What happens when you wrestle kids from surrounding states that are not playing by the same set of rules?

My thinking that just go back “Old school” and start doing shoulder-to-shoulder weigh-ins like they did when I was a kid and 90% of the problems would be solved! With a whole lot less administration.

Everyone chime in with your thoughts!

Does anyone know somebody from a state that is already using this hydration test? Maybe someone with experience would be able to explain all the ins and outs that will come with the new rules.

As a former Oklahoma coach and a new Kansas coach, I too was apprehensive of this new weight rule. In Oklahoma it is being implemented this year mostly because the National Federation says that it must be in order to be in compliance with all federation states. In Oklahoma they have done away with the 1/2 weigh ins and if your weight chart says that you started at 135 and you should make your flat weight of 112 on the thursday prior to regionals then you can wrestle at 112 at regionals providing you make flat 112 then you would get your 2 lb allowance on Saturday. But it does take the coach and school out of the equation because if you have those kids that say "coach I can't make that weight" and the chart clearly states that the kid can do it in a healthy manner then who's to argue? In Oklahoma we also had to have a doctor, nurse, or someone in the medical profession obtain 8 hours of training by the state in order qualified to do testing.

There isn't anyone else, as far as I know, that is using this specific rule for hydration testing. A KSHSAA sanctioned board (including Coaches, Administrators, and Doctors) developed these standards, which are much more liberal and less restrictive than the NFHS rules that Kansas has opted not to follow.

Red, I too have apprehensions, but think that shoulder to shoulder weigh ins wouldn't really address the issue that is trying to be solved. Basically the idea is to keep kids from severly dehydrating themselves to make weight. I don't believe shoulder to shoulder would discourage that. In fact if I were weighing in (thank goodness I don't have to!) I would probably lose more weight than I had to if I were weighing in shoulder to shoulder since I wouldn't always be familiar with the scales.

I think that one thing that will help the fact that you have to be hydrated to certify is the fact that now you don't have to certify on a competition date, and you can certify any time on or before January 12th as I understand the new rules. Basically this means each wrestler can certify any time they are on weight, are hydrated, and an administrator is present (even after a practice or before school some day).

All in all I think the new rules are less restictive and less time consuming to implement than the NFHS rules- which I definitely do not want to follow.

Iowa has been hydration AND fat testing for the past seven years. It is interesting to note that Iowa's current plan will NOT comply fully with the National Federation rule.

Also, it is true that if a state follows all three components of the NF plan to the letter (hydration, body fat measurement AND a descent plan which allows for no more that 1.5% loss of body weight per week (how would you like to keep those records!) a wrestler can wrestle a weight class at Regionals which he/she has not wrestled at all year! How to seed such a thing?

The Jan. 12 date for certification is no different than it has been for the past year. And yes, it is true that a wrestler will have to be hydrated at his weight in order to be certified. I can think of NO situation where a wrestler cannot certify by Jan. 12 (unless sick, injured, etc. ) I CAN beleive that there will be wrestlers who certify at a weight heavier than they would have wanted to.

Yes, it is true that an athlete will not be allowed to practice until they have a hydrated alpha weight. Alpha weight wil be allowed to be taken during buffer week, or the week before practice officially begins. Again, unless a kid decides to come out late there should be no reason why a hydrated alpha weight could not be recorded before practice ever begins. Allowances will be made for those schools with wrestlers athletes participating in the football playoffs--and this would involve four schools in each class by the time wrestlin practice officially begins.
Again a hydrated alpha weight may be at a heavier weight than a wrestler would have otherwise desired.

Checking urine is not one of those things that I got into the school business to do. And I plan to handle none of it; the cup should NEVER leave the athletes hand! But, if checking the specific gravity of urine needs to be done to ensure that our athletes are healthy and wise, so be it. Two people should be able to do our team of 40 or so in 45 minutes to an hour at most. Also, we will have specific gravity color charts posted in our locker room and our athletes will have access to clear plastic cups so they themselves can check their hydration levels daily if they choose.

The committee which developed these rule recommendations is composed of active and retired wrestling coaches, high school principals and superintendents who have wrestling backgrounds, physicians with back grounds and great interest in wrestling and a certified trainer. The committee has worked hard to balance the compliance with rules necessary to lessen all of our liabilities in the event of a tragic accident and to also keep the bookkeeping burden on our coaches and administrators to a minimum.

Wrestling is the oldest sport known to man; a few rule changes designed to safegaurd the health of our athletes and encourage proper nutrition instead of dangerous dehydration is not going
to kill it.

I bet a majority of kids aren't hydrated getting out of school going straight to practice...I see tons of flaws with this system, even at the NCAA level it's not full proof.

Aaron,

No argument here about the lack of hydration in our students; few people, young or old, drink enough water! Soda, coffee, tea does not count. Kids will be surprised if they will cut out their soda intake how much better they will be able to hydrate at a lower weight and how much harder and longer they will be able to work.

Many flaws? No doubt, especially for those who spend a lot of time figuring out how to "beat" the system. But, this is NOT a good enough reason to not do something that is (1) designed to protect the health of our athletes; (2) stress the importance of good nutrition; and (3) lesser our legal liability in the event of a tragic accident. A reasonable and prudent man is proactive.

I might remind you that it is BECAUSE OF the abuses in NCAA wrestling that these rules have been brought to the forefront; so please, don't use the NCAA as an argument against these new rules at the National level and in Kansas.

I still find this troubling on the point of who is going to administrate this endeavor! The Coach cannot, I assume most AD's will not (I wouldn’t) we know most kids will find this degrading. So who Egg? Does the expense of a Doctor or Nurse fall on the program? Also how do you manage the time it will take to have somebody present for all possible weigh-ins up to certification? The preseason Alpha weight I don't see an issue with from a time perspective. The certification seems to me like a nightmare. Maybe we should just do a better job educating our wrestlers about the right way to manage their weight!

Maybe one of the college guys will give us a clue on how it works at their level?

As I said in my earlier post, Red, I will check urine if needed and necessary.

This is not that big of a deal from an administration stand point. In regards to certification the vast majority of wrestlers will continue to certify at or close to the Jan. 12 date. Some communication between coaches and their A.D.s will be helpful and the process of home certifications wil not be cumbersome.

Perhaps the administrative team in Norton is "different," in this regard but we do not see it as being a problem for us to check for hydration nor do we see this duty as being "beneath" us. Whether or not the wrestlers see it as "demeaning," I guess I do not know. But, in my opinion it is not any worse than standing naked in front of wrestlers and coaches you DON'T know in a competition site certification weigh-in.

Take a deep breath, it is going to be OK.

One other thing, if we HAD done a better job before now in educating our athletes about the right way to lose weight we wouldn't be looking at these rule changes, not only in Kansas but across the nation.

Egg... If I recall right you were involved in the initial draft of these new rules (I maybe wrong) I appreciate your comments but we all know that Norton is the wrestling Mecca of the world! And will go to any extent to accommodate their wrestlers. Not so in other parts of the state. I'm sure if you ask a Norton wrestling cheerleader to perform this function they would gladly step up to the plate and contribute what ever was necessary. I would be more than happy to perform this function for the Manhattan team. But I don't see that the majority of the schools will follow these new rules to the letter! I hope I’m wrong, look at the way some schools seem to struggle with legitimate home weigh-ins. How many kids come out the second day at State 20 lbs. bigger than they were the first day! This is when we should do our hydration testing. We will make it work... I just wish there was an easier way. I believe if “everyone” takes this seriously, then all will be good!

Someone help me out on this because this is all still new to me. Truth is that Nathan has never really done what I consider a hard cut until Fargo this year. A special thanks to TC Dantzler and especially Eric Akin who helped tremendously with the process of what to do once you get to weight.

Here is my question. I honest to God don't know if Nathan has ever been more than 7% body fat. I also know there is a difference between start of the week weight and end of the week weight. Truth is, that we found out a kid can cut some, do it safely, and maintain strength and everything else that goes with it. Obviously, there are limits to that, and they will be different for each kid.

Here is my question though, exactly how do these new rules affect a kid with already very low body fat due to a large percentage of muscle mass, and being small on top of that. I will also say, the answer is not in saying for the kid to eat more. My son eats like a horse and has a very high metabolism rate as will any very active person. I am not being critical of the rules, it is just after reading them, and reading them, and then talking to kids in states where they used the rules this year, I still am not clear as to what to expect. My understanding is, you will need a doctor’s note saying the weight is a safe weight for the kid. I assume the parents pay for that doctors visit and physical if that is the case.

Red,

Yes, I have been a member, from the "get-go" of the committee which is developing these rules . Do I like the fact that we are imposing more rules on a sport that already has more rules to live by than any other KSHSAA sanctioned sport (skin forms, waivers for weightloss, hair length, finger nails, certification, blood clean-up etc. etc.)? HECK NO! (BTW--the KSHSAA REALLY SHOULD have rules on checking for finger nail length for FB & BB players!!!!!!!!! )

In my estimation what is now driving the train in regards to these rules is a sincere belief that some of our athletes are engaing in very dangerous weight loss practices--often with the encouragment, at worst, or benign disinterest, at best, of coaches and parents. Secondly is the concern that when there are rules developed by National Experts (such as those who compose the NFHS Medical and Rules Committees) and we choose not to follow them--what is our legal and legitimate defense if there was a tragic accident? "We in Kansas know more about these things than the nationally recognized experts?" I don't think that will go very far--perhaps Richard can shed some legal light on this as to whether or not this would be a defensible position to take.

I truly believe the rule changes that are being proposed draw the best fitting line which connects (a) giving more protection to the health of our athletes; (b) being able to defend ourselves legally in the event that it is necessary and (c) avoiding an excessive burden of documentation for our coaches and administrators.

It may be, in all likelihood, that there will be training available for persons such as yourselves so as to be "certified" to help with this process.

You know, in some respects this situation is very much like McDoanlds being sued because they serve hot coffee; in that the legal responsibility to protect people who are voluntarily availing themselves of an institution rests with the institution. But, that is a topic for another thread.

Mike -

I don't see how being small or having a low body fat or being heavily muscled will make a difference. Nathan will go in on the first day of practice and pee in a cup. The AD (or someone he assigns) will dip a strip in the cup and it will show if Nate is hydrated enough. If he isn't then he will have to drink some water and retest up until he becomes hydrated. Once he is hydrated then he can step on the scale and get his prelimniary weight. I don't beleive that a heavily muscled small person with low body fat would naturally walk around with a hydration that is lower than someone else.

I am not saying a like the rule. There seems to be a lot to desire in terms of how the hydration test will be implemented. But just like now, you will only be as good as the AD who runs the testing.

Mr. Furches,

I think you are talking about the body fat testing that will not begin next year. The only new rule change for the 06-07 season is the hydration testing at the Alpha weigh in and again at certification. The body fat testing will be implemented in the 07-08 school year, and I don't think all of the details have been worked out yet, but I may be wrong. I assume there will be some appeals process for cases like this, I hope it is process of getting a doctor's consent (which is already the case if a wrestler wants to lose more than 10% of their body weight, and the parents of the athlete bear that cost now).

The rules being devloped and implemented are not the same as the NFHS rules. They are being developed by people involved in Kansas wrestling to try to best fit the needs of Kansas wrestlers, so there may be significant differences between what we will be doing as opposed to those in other states.

Hope this helps, but it probably didn't!

Helps some guys, thanks for the response.

I recall Dan Gable claim, that he never passed a hydration test in his life. That might be a bit of a stretch but I also imagine that it will be as much of a factor for the bigger guys.

The rule changes as being proposed for 2006-07 (hydration) and which are still under development for 2007-08 (body fat testing) will closely mirror the NFHS rules in those two areas.

Where the committee has decided to "go on our own" is in the areas(a) of shoulder-to-shoulder weigh-ins (we were adamant that our home site arrangement be maintained) and (b) having a descent plan to govern a wrestler's total amount of weight loss. The NFHS says a plan must be in place to monitor a wrestler's weight so they lose no more than 1.5% of their body weight per week. This would be administrative nightmare and paper jungle and in the long run, unfair. How many kids (or adults for that matter) are so in tune with their bodies that they can "dial in" a 1.5% weight loss--no more and no less. Is this a Saturday to Saturday week? Is it Monday to Monday for some and Friday to Friday for others? Does it make a difference as to which weeks are heavy in competition and which may be light? If a kid gains some weight back is the 1.5% for the next week based on his new weight (yes) or his previous week's weight? (no) Etc,. Etc. Etc.

At this point the current Kansas rule of no more than 10% total weight loss and at least 1/2 of matches wrestled at weight for regional competition will be our "descent" plan. However, the 10% will be dependent upon a wrestler's body fat level. It may be that his alpha weight and body fat will not allow him to legally lose the full 10%. This is an area which has been discussed at great length and will continue to be a matter for discussion. It is in this area where the possibility of some sort of waiver process to exceed the 10% limit could come into play.

Mike Furches--CURRENTLY if a wrestler seeks the 10% waiver they must have a Doctor's signature and this cost is borne by the wrestler/his family. So if the new body fat rule contains a medical waiver provision, the responsibility for the cost of the waiver will be no different than it is currently.

All I know is stay off the Stress tab's and the off the wall vitamins... the will make your pee all kinds of weird colors.

Egg, I understand the committees concerns and appreciate them... but when you make rules people tend to break them or find ways around them. There must be some kind of consequences for disregard. Not everyone plays fair. What about enforcement? Thanks for all your efforts; I know your heart is in the right place!