Richard,

Time Stands Still probably knows exactly what he is talking about. I too have had a St. Thomas Aquinas parent say nearly the same thing to me.

The rule states those that are directly or indirectly associated with the school. I don't know whether that gets too fuzzy for the activity association to act when parents acting independently are involved, but there are certainly are some ethical problems.

As a former coach I do not know how many of my best wrestlers were actually contacted, but I can name one and that was confirmed by his parents. He was not new to my program either, he was going to be a junior.

Whether these are provable offenses or just provable ethical problems, I am not sure. But they are an area of concern.

Gary Ulmer

I am not sure that it would be fair to hold a school accountable for one of its wrestler's parents suggesting to another school's parent that they should consider having their child transfer to their child's high school. I think you could if you could prove the high school coach or someone directly affiliated with the school was asking his wrestlers parents to do that for them.

I have been told that smokeycabin's interpretation of the Kansas statute that he sited may be wrong about a public school student being able to transfer to any school in the county. The person told me that after reading that post that it seemed to be saying you could go to any school within your own school district and if the school did not accept you than you had it had to pay the county. So if you live in the Shawnee Mission school district, you could go to say SM East, West, North etc, but not an Olathe or Blue Valley school district school. Perhaps someone could clarify that who knows for sure.

In the SMSD you can attend any school as long as that school is not full. I think the only closed HS is SME.

the bottem line in this post is do private schools have an advantage? and yes they do.if winfield and ark city were able to pick and chose there teams from a county full of wrestlers they would be unbeatable. and as far as fare for holding a school accountable for parants recruting athletes, if they did it would stop this crap of private schools recruting and we wouldnt see posts like this one.

number two, you said if Winfield and Ark City were able to pick and choose their teams from a county full of wrestlers they would be unbeatable. Aquinas did not pick and choose these transfers. They chose Aquinas.

When your saying to hold a school accountable for parents recruiting athletes I agree with that whether it was a public or private school involved in the recruiting. But that would depend on what the ruling board would determine to be recruiting. If any coach, school official, booster club, or other organization officially associated with a school encourages a parent to approach another wrestler's parent with promises of some financial or other type of beneficial award for the wrestler or his family then that in my opinion would be recruiting. But if say a parent from School 1 is talking to a parent from School 2 at a tournament and tells them they would love to see the wrestler from School 2 on School 1's team, then personally I don't think that is punishable recruiting violation. Even in this scenario if School 1 parent tells School 2 parent that there is financial aid available, I still would not see that as a punishable recruiting violation. It is a well known fact that financial aid can be applied for at most private schools for families that qualify.

I agree that it is advantage for private schools that they can draw from a wider metropolitan area than public schools. In spite of this you have dominant public school athletic programs like in our area the Olathe North football program and certainly the Shawnee Mission Northwest boys and girls cross country programs. Somehow these programs have been able to overcome this private school advantage over a very long period of time and they do not seem to be slowly down either.

Coach Ulmer:

What Time Stands Still stated was "I was told by a St. Thomas Aquinas wrestling parent that he does contact good wrestlers from public school programs about attending St. Thomas Aquinas."

If one parent is contacting multiple families or wrestlers from public schools, this is an easily provable incident, and quite likely an activity the KSHSAA would be interested in to, at the very least, inform St. Thomas Aquinas officials this behavior is unacceptable.

Further, Time states "The public school wrestling coaches in the Johnson county area will almost all tell you that most of their good wrestlers have been contacted by a representative of St. Thomas Aquinas".

I do not believe Time is in a position to speak for all public high school coaches in Johnson County. Time states the contact was made by a "representative of St. Thomas Aquinas", and again this type of activity, if true, is easily confirmed. If a complaint were lodged regarding a representative from St. Thomas Aquinas directly contacting athletes from other schools, KSHSAA absolutely would investigate, and based on the findings, would take action.

I can assure you this type of activity is prevalent at public schools as well and is not relegated to athletics alone. Public school parents and teachers also compete and encourage students who may be attending another district high schools feeder school to attend their high school for athletic and academic purposes. High Schools take great pride, and do not hesitate to advertise, the number of National Merit Scholars at their school.

Lastly, at this years Kapaun Tournament, a team from out of county participated and I recognized two of the athletes from the Catholic Parish I attend. I did ask the parents of these two athletes why the kids were not attending Kapaun. I mentioned nothing regarding athletics, however I believe it was my responsibility to advocate for Catholic education to Catholic parents whose children do not attend Catholic schools.

Well said Husker Fan!

"being catholic is not a criteria for those calls."

A former STA basketball standout from the mid-90s was Baptist. He was an outstanding guy, good student, involved in STUCO and numerous other activities and quite a roll model student. But, he also was a three-year starter on the basketball team. Always seemed a bit interesting.
About two percent of the STA enrollment isn't Catholic. It would be interesting to see how many of those individuals are athletes.

Also, from a recruiting standpoint, when I was playing football in eighth grade, some Rockhurst freshman/sophomore football coaches contacted my grade school football coach after a game and asked him to try to talk me into going to Rockhurst. My coach wouldn't do it, despite having coached numerous other youths who went on to be standouts at Rockhurst. Coach told me about this during my freshman year of high school, because he wanted me to make a decision for myself.
Anyway, that's just some food for thought.

Either way, with regards to the STA program, they have done an outstanding job building their youth program during the past decade and the high school program has reaped the benefits year after year. They've done an outstanding job building a championship-caliber program. I have no idea if they recruit or not, but the kids there are well coached and well educated.

I think there is a different set of standards at work with a private school. For example Shawnee Mission schools have a zero tolerance for drug and alcohol use. If a Shawnee Mission athlete violates the rule he is out period, across the board, no exceptions. The coach has no control, it is policy. I think that coaches at private schools may have more latitude to tailor rules to individuals. I know in the past a private school was very lienent with one of their best wrestlers when he was caught using alcohol. I would guess that the coach has the same control over other issues such as cutting weight, and academics etc. I know of wrestlers who perceive there to be an unfair advantage and though willing to compete during the regular season, resent it come time for Regional and State tournaments. I suppose that may be an issue contributing to Oklahoma's policy. I think that most parents do their best to provide their children with the greatest possible enviornment to succeed. Some parent's top priority may be academics, or ethics while anothers are sports, but in all of these scenarios private schools have alot to offer. What is best for the kids going to school and wrestling is what is important. Private schools operate independently from public schools, and as such are not financed or operated by local authority or government.I am sure most of their patrons see this as an advantage for their kids. Is it too unfair? Probably not, but I think all schools should maintain the highest possible standards, and compete under the same rules, especially when the kids are all rivals, striving for the same prize. I don't however blame the parents for doing what they feel is best for their kids.

The coach at a private school must follow the same KSHSAA rules and regulations regarding weight control and academic eligibility as do coaches at public schools.

I agree STA has a terrific kids club. I have been
around the sport for several years now and definately know and understand the components that
make up a quality kids club. My son has visited
this club several times and has been to a few of
STA's summer clinics. I am not surprised this program is doing well today. It is funny several
have mentioned being approached by STA parents etc about coming to STA. My son has been approached many times, by parents and even the coach. The comment is nothing more than "You are a good wrestler, you really should consider coming to Aquinas" Our standard response has always been, well we are not Catholic. "The Acquinas response everytime has been. "Well no one is perfect."
Always said with a smile. So is this really recruiting? The most valid point I have read in this forum is the point about pulling kids from the entire metro. That does make a huge difference. I noticed someone mentioned this issue in reference to Oklahoma, in that private schools are not able to compete in the state tournament. I used to live in Oklahoma. In fact
I had two nephews at Jenks, High School,(just south of Tulsa, OK) Jenks won the state football championship 6 years running. It was always interesting that they had very talented inter-city kids on their rosters. One in particular comes to mind is the running back Kejuan Jones, that is now
a running back for OU. Kejuan, was a transfer from North Tulsa. I never really understood how that worked. So maybe there is a little unfairness
in being able to pull from a metro area.

Mamabear10,

You are talking about a casual conversation that is innocent enough.

The concern comes with the calling of high school kids in and out of the season to attend STA. Again I had a STA parent, from the wrestling team, telling me of having called athletes from a given high school to encourage them to attend STA the following year.

These athletes had already wrestled for another high school, were established good wrestlers in that public high school, and were being contacted by a parent about attending a private school. Color it however you want I still have problems with the ethics behind it. This is a concern that transends beyond just pulling kids from the entire metro.

Time Stands Still

correct me if im wrong but isnt olathe norths 119 a transfer from another school. and i think he is a transfer from another olathe public middle school, as were the aquinas kids. Im sure he was in touch with members of the north staff. im sure there was a phone conversation. also all 3 transfers are of the catholic families.

With over 200,000 Catholics in the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas… I would hope that STA could field a wrestling team. I’m sure every kid wants to go to a parochial school to wrestle. “Mom, Dad I want to go to STA when I grow up they have a great wrestling team”. Give me a break.

And you'd think Miege and B-Ward could too. Not the case. Guess some of the reasons stated above like the success of their kids club and the excellent coaching staff mean very little when it comes to STA. No, it's gotta be cheating. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Actually, there is a conference of private catholic high schools in the KC Metro. They divide up which sports programs will be successful and distribute the athletes accordingly.

Miege - Mens Basketball

Rockhurst - Football

Aquinas - Wrestling
Soccer
Track

Bishop Ward - Baseball

These sports they had too many kids so they split them up -
- Womens Volleyball and Womens Basketball were shared with Miege and Aquinas
- Mens Basketball was shared with Miege and Rockhurst


You guys busted them. It's the REAL reason Aquinas is ranked #1. Sure they haven't done anything at state, but just in case they DO win it all, you have a patented excuse.

:rolleyes:

Yeah. Quit whining.

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